Pyramid 2019/2020

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, energyzone said:

On 05/11/2018 at 18:04, FairWeatherFan said:

I'm sure they'd work it like the Lowland League, open applications with a grace period to get licenced. Then it's a balancing act of the ability to get licenced with best on field performance across the various leagues.
If it's a single division I doubt there will be many Ayrshire Junior applicants. Apart from Kilwinning there doesn't seem to have been much interest in the pyramid publicly.

If Kilwinning appear interested it's fair to say other clubs are as well. The chairman said on the junior forum several months ago that a number of clubs had been discussing it.

It's more about the lack of interest if it's a single division. 

LL2 west is basically the West Region Premiership under Lowland  League authority.

[RedEd]

I think the key to what happens in the West hinges on Talbot. If they were to move that would likely force the hand of Cumnock and Glenafton. In that case I don't think Troon, Meadow or Hurlford would be far behind. If the West League is run by the Lowland League rather than the SJFA then Bonnyton may be another applicant.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by RedEd

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I think the key to what happens in the West hinges on Talbot. If they were to move that would likely force the hand of Cumnock and Glenafton. In that case I don't think Troon, Meadow or Hurlford would be far behind. If the West League is run by the Lowland League rather than the SJFA then Bonnyton may be another applicant.
 

Not really, with the greatest respect not every club really cares. Yes Talbot are a big club but ultimately they aren’t going to be the defining factor for any club outwith the Cumnock area.

[San Starko Rover]

Interesting if they do go ahead with LL2 next season. If it’s LL2E & LL2W I think the West Juniors would start to apply (some May stay staunchly loyal to the SJFA), you’d certainly get enough for a league but if it’s just LL2 many might not be so keen. I would imagine Clydebank would go for it but if the West Juniors refuse they could end up even further down the pyramid. LL2 East and LL2 West seems the sensible option. Open it up to applications (as LL was) see how many come in then no unwilling Junior clubs are forced to join. The alternative from the email is a clusterfuck of an idea.

[RedEd]

32 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Not really, with the greatest respect not every club really cares. Yes Talbot are a big club but ultimately they aren’t going to be the defining factor for any club outwith the Cumnock area.

Clubs care about their gate receipts,  and if the biggest club with biggest travelling support leaves it may start a chain reaction. Otherwise they will find themselves back in a league where the away supports sometimes do well to reach double figures. Remember what happened in the East. A trickle quickly became a flood.

[Glenconner]

24 minutes ago, RedEd said:

Clubs care about their gate receipts,  and if the biggest club with biggest travelling support leaves it may start a chain reaction. Otherwise they will find themselves back in a league where the away supports sometimes do well to reach double figures. Remember what happened in the East. A trickle quickly became a flood.

Very few large (more than a busload) supports in the West Juniors. 

[newcastle broon]

43 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Interesting if they do go ahead with LL2 next season. If it’s LL2E & LL2W I think the West Juniors would start to apply (some May stay staunchly loyal to the SJFA), you’d certainly get enough for a league but if it’s just LL2 many might not be so keen. I would imagine Clydebank would go for it but if the West Juniors refuse they could end up even further down the pyramid. LL2 East and LL2 West seems the sensible option. Open it up to applications (as LL was) see how many come in then no unwilling Junior clubs are forced to join. The alternative from the email is a clusterfuck of an idea.

If  run by the LL Would a  LL west no start wi EK BSC Gretna Dalbeattie Cumbernauld and maybes uni of Stirling  ?

There's 5 potentially or 6 teams in it already  ?

Edited November 7, 2018 by newcastle broon

[surely not!]

If  run by the LL Would a  LL west no start wi EK BSC Gretna Dalbeattie Cumbernauld and maybes uni of Stirling  ?
There's 5 potentially or 6 teams in it already  ?

Under the plans discussed here it would be LL2 west/east. Obviously, those above are currently in the LL

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

If  run by the LL Would a  LL west no start wi EK BSC Gretna Dalbeattie Cumbernauld and maybes uni of Stirling  ?

There's 5 potentially or 6 teams in it already  ?

Civil Service Strollers referred to the creation of a LL2 working group, the assumption being the Lowland League are looking to control tier 6.

With one of the likely format considerations being a single division or split west/east divisions.

[honestman54]

1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

Interesting if they do go ahead with LL2 next season. If it’s LL2E & LL2W I think the West Juniors would start to apply (some May stay staunchly loyal to the SJFA), you’d certainly get enough for a league but if it’s just LL2 many might not be so keen. I would imagine Clydebank would go for it but if the West Juniors refuse they could end up even further down the pyramid. LL2 East and LL2 West seems the sensible option. Open it up to applications (as LL was) see how many come in then no unwilling Junior clubs are forced to join. The alternative from the email is a clusterfuck of an idea.

Pardon my lack of understanding but I thought that the EOSL were already developing a league system from their three conferences and that would include a 16 team Premier League.  I would have thought that this would/should form a LLEast (tier 6) below the current LL (tier 5) and so its how they develop a LLWest at tier 6 that needs to be concluded.

[Auld Heid]

17 minutes ago, honestman54 said:

Pardon my lack of understanding but I thought that the EOSL were already developing a league system from their three conferences and that would include a 16 team Premier League.  I would have thought that this would/should form a LLEast (tier 6) below the current LL (tier 5) and so its how they develop a LLWest at tier 6 that needs to be concluded.

You would think so - but you have to take into account that there is no joined up approach or real leadership by the SFA.   At face value you have a Pyramid Working Group trying to appease everyone.

The EoS started the creation of a monster by allowing anyone and everyone apply - most teams applying were unlicenced with no pending application.  The SFA then put a hold on applications to teams applying for a licence.

Now again it feels we are talking about the way forwards without  a proper structure in place and therefore  teams are not 100% sure what the future is.

Teams and Supporters want clarity - instead it feels like they are making it up as we go along

[Daydreamer]

The quicker entrance to the Scottish Cup for junior teams is removed the better. Junior clubs want the best of both worlds.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

You would think so - but you have to take into account that there is no joined up approach or real leadership by the SFA.   At face value you have a Pyramid Working Group trying to appease everyone.

The EoS started the creation of a monster by allowing anyone and everyone apply - most teams applying were unlicenced with no pending application.  The SFA then put a hold on applications to teams applying for a licence.

Now again it feels we are talking about the way forwards without  a proper structure in place and therefore  teams are not 100% sure what the future is.

Teams and Supporters want clarity - instead it feels like they are making it up as we go along

Licensing isn't a requirement for Tier 6 of the pyramid, so there's no reason they would expect or require applicants to be licensed.

[Burnie_man]

Licensing isn't a requirement for Tier 6 of the pyramid, so there's no reason they would expect or require applicants to be licensed.

He's been told that many times before, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

 

[Auld Heid]

Just now, craigkillie said:

Licensing isn't a requirement for Tier 6 of the pyramid, so there's no reason they would expect or require applicants to be licensed.

Kinda proves my point - you have a Tier 6, where the whole point is to progress.  Yet the league is full of teams  unlikely to be licensed anytime soon to progress to Tier 5 (LL - where it is a requirement, I believe).   

Surely a Pyramid will only work when teams either meet or are working to the basic criteria of Licensing?   

 

[Marshmallo]

27 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Kinda proves my point - you have a Tier 6, where the whole point is to progress.  Yet the league is full of teams  unlikely to be licensed anytime soon to progress to Tier 5 (LL - where it is a requirement, I believe).   

Surely a Pyramid will only work when teams either meet or are working to the basic criteria of Licensing?   

 

In that case, every team in the South of Scotland should be eligible to meet the Champions League standards since they can get to that level.

[honestly united]

19 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Kinda proves my point - you have a Tier 6, where the whole point is to progress.  Yet the league is full of teams  unlikely to be licensed anytime soon to progress to Tier 5 (LL - where it is a requirement, I believe).   

Surely a Pyramid will only work when teams either meet or are working to the basic criteria of Licensing?   

 

The point of a pyramid is that there are different criteria as you get higher. In theory it should start off at the bottom rung being amateurs where the only requirement would be a pitch and somewhere to get changed, and as you move higher up the requirements get higher, such as fenced off park, cover for fans, floodlights etc.

The problem we have is that for too long different leagues have run as their own little fiefdoms and not been joined up in any way, in fact trying to do the exact opposite

[craigkillie]

32 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Kinda proves my point - you have a Tier 6, where the whole point is to progress.  Yet the league is full of teams  unlikely to be licensed anytime soon to progress to Tier 5 (LL - where it is a requirement, I believe).   

Surely a Pyramid will only work when teams either meet or are working to the basic criteria of Licensing?   

 

I'm sure we've had this exact same discussion before, but the point of any league is to be a league for clubs at that level, and to provide the opportunity to progress. For some clubs, reaching Tier 6 is in itself an excellent achievement, whilst some clubs will see Tier 6 as a stepping stone on the way to Tier 5. That's true of every level of a football pyramid. Alloa are in Tier 2 of the pyramid right now, but their aim is to stay in that league rather than win promotion to Tier 1.

Licensing is not for everyone - the point is to ensure that certain standards are met at particular levels of the game. The standards required for Tier 1 and Tier 2 are higher than for Tier 3 and Tier 4, and likewise those are higher than for Tier 5. There are still certain standards required at Tier 6 (eg an enclosed pitch), but those are not part of the licensing process. If a team gains promotion to a level with higher standards, they have to make sure they meet them. Asking teams to meet the standards for the league above doesn't make sense - the natural extension of that is that every club should be aiming for a Gold License, since that's what's required in Tier 1. After all, the whole point of the pyramid is for clubs in Tier 7 to be able to progress to Tier 1.

[Vollyman]

You would think so - but you have to take into account that there is no joined up approach or real leadership by the SFA.   At face value you have a Pyramid Working Group trying to appease everyone.
The EoS started the creation of a monster by allowing anyone and everyone apply - most teams applying were unlicenced with no pending application.  The SFA then put a hold on applications to teams applying for a licence.
Now again it feels we are talking about the way forwards without  a proper structure in place and therefore  teams are not 100% sure what the future is.
Teams and Supporters want clarity - instead it feels like they are making it up as we go along

I agree it’s time the SFA as the governing body took control of the situation and laid down the options and format for non-league clubs

[stanley]

Plenty of the teams that end up being EoS Premier (tier 6) next season probably have a good chance of becoming licensed in the next couple of years if not sooner I'd imagine.  

You can't really use this season as a judge with the previous licensing embargo and the huge range of levels of the teams involved.