Burnie_man Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: Neither do you. I do know that the bull that the EoS fed their members about a Tayside League wasn’t even discussed! Oh I do. You know, for a Clydebank fan who's club will likely enter the EoS next season, you have a strange attitude. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Neither do you. I do know that the bull that the EoS fed their members about a Tayside League wasn’t even discussed! This is from the Lowland League rules relating to the play-off between the LL/HL/SPFL42 Then when it comes to relegation only the East of Scotland and South of Scotland are named. The South of Scotland rules are a bit lacklustre But does mean that Pyramid Play-off Rules are set aside somewhere. The EoS only seem to have their policies up rather than their constitution, but as the Lowland League was set up largely by EoS members there's a good chance that their rules are similar to the Lowland League. So there might well be a rule set aside stating the Tier 6 Playoff and that any change will have to be agreed between SFA, LL, EoS & SoS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vollyman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 LOL, it was probably done to put doubt into the minds of those thinking of leaving, muddy the waters. All I can keep repeating is that there is no such agreement. There might be in future, you never know, but there isn't one as it stands. All member leagues of the Pyramid need to agree to changes and there isn't a cat in hells chance of the EoS agreeing to another league on their patch.When was a rule passed that one association could veto a decision agreed by all other associations surely it is a democratic situation and a small region with 39 clubs cannot dictate the future of Scottish football 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: This is from the Lowland League rules relating to the play-off between the LL/HL/SPFL42 I think that's for the pyramid play-off with club 42. The rules for admission to the league are in B4 - where it states unless there's a vacancy, you can only become a member through relegation from the SPFL or promotion from the EOS/SOS (depending on licensing). Presumably there would need to be an amendment to these rules to allow a EOS/SOS/WR/ER play-off? Under rule F7 you'd need a SGM or rule alterations to be sent to the secretary by 30th April ahead of the AGM in late May/June. Not sure what would happen if the SFA wanted the rule changed but the LL didn't... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Ginaro said: I think that's for the pyramid play-off with club 42. The rules for admission to the league are in B4 - where it states unless there's a vacancy, you can only become a member through relegation from the SPFL or promotion from the EOS/SOS (depending on licensing). Presumably there would need to be an amendment to these rules to allow a EOS/SOS/WR/ER play-off? Under rule F7 you'd need a SGM or rule alterations to be sent to the secretary by 30th April ahead of the AGM in late May/June. Not sure what would happen if the SFA wanted the rule changed but the LL didn't... It is from the pyramid play-off relating to club 42. I included it as an example of the way the rule was written and how it has potentially been paraphrased for the LL/EoS/SoS playoff. Then mentioned how relegation only East of Scotland and South of Scotland Leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Vollyman said: When was a rule passed that one association could veto a decision agreed by all other associations surely it is a democratic situation and a small region with 39 clubs cannot dictate the future of Scottish football The SJFA are an Association, the EoS, SoS, LL and HL are SFA member leagues. As illustrated above, changes to the SPFL play-off needs to be agreed by the leagues involved (HL, LL, SPFL, plus the SFA), the same would most likely follow for the LL play-off, where changes need to be agreed by the LL, EoS and SoS. I can't see why it would be any different. There is then the added complication that admittance of the ERJFA in it's current format includes clubs north of the HL/LL line, presumably that would require further agreement, potentially upto SPFL board level. The SFA are not in the habit of imposing decisions such as this without complete agreement, they may not be able to anyway. The PWG exists as a forum to get all bodies round a table to discuss and reach agreement/consensus (Maxwell's email from a few months ago mentions that), but we don't have that yet, there isn't even a plan. At some point, the ERJFA (not the SJFA) and EoS need to get round a table and talk turkey IMO. It's the only sensible way forward to a solution. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Maybe Burnie_man should be a bit more open to teams and leagues joining the pyramid. Seems like he gone from being as keen as mustard when it was his team joining last season to Mr. Self Preservation this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Enigma said: Maybe Burnie_man should be a bit more open to teams and leagues joining the pyramid. Seems like he gone from being as keen as mustard when it was his team joining last season to Mr. Self Preservation this season. You've not been paying attention then, anyone that has knows I want to see all clubs in the east of Scotland playing in the same league, from next season if possible. Admitting the ERJFA continues division. Very self preservation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 You've not been paying attention then, anyone that has knows I want to see all clubs in the east of Scotland playing in the same league, from next season if possible. Admitting the ERJFA continues division. Very self preservation :lol:Surely letting them in and having a play off on the future for Lowland League promotion, as has been suggested, is a step forward. There has to be compromise somewhere doesn’t there? Why does the EoS have the right to dictate the terms of entry, is it just because you latched on to the LL first? If the EoS is so hung up about league covering the same geographic areas why are you admitting Clydebank, seems a bit of double standards there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, Enigma said: Surely letting them in and having a play off on the future for Lowland League promotion, as has been suggested, is a step forward. There has to be compromise somewhere doesn’t there? Why does the EoS have the right to dictate the terms of entry, is it just because you latched on to the LL first? If the EoS is so hung up about league covering the same geographic areas why are you admitting Clydebank, seems a bit of double standards there. The East of Scotland has the "right to dictate terms of entry" because they have been part of the pyramid for the last three years or so while the East Juniors have not. If you want to make a change to the existing pyramid, then that requires at least some form of agreement from the existing member leagues. That's more or less a fundamental part of how football pyramids work. Adding in a new parallel league in exactly the same area that already has one would be a very weird step, particularly when that new league has some members which are too far north to play in the Lowland League as it stands. If the Central Scottish amateur league (which has a long history and some strong teams involved, as far as I know) decided that it wanted to become part of the Juniors, and asked to be let in at the second tier of the West Region, parallel to the Championship and ahead of all the existing League 1 and League 2 clubs, do you think those clubs would just accept that as being a "step forward" or a "compromise"? No, most likely they would ask them to join on at the bottom, or insist on some sort of merger. That's what Burnieman has been proposing all along, not that what is left of the East Juniors should be shut out completely. Why would Clydebank joining the East of Scotland league be "double standards"? At present, the only Tier 6 leagues in the Pyramid are the East of Scotland League and the South of Scotland League. Clydebank don't really fit properly into either of those, but it's every bit as reasonable for them to play in the EoS as it is the SoS. If the West Juniors joined the pyramid and/or formed a new WoS league, then in that case it wouldn't obviously make sense for Clydebank to be in the EoS, but none of that has actually happened yet. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Surely letting them in and having a play off on the future for Lowland League promotion, as has been suggested, is a step forward. There has to be compromise somewhere doesn’t there? Why does the EoS have the right to dictate the terms of entry, is it just because you latched on to the LL first? If the EoS is so hung up about league covering the same geographic areas why are you admitting Clydebank, seems a bit of double standards there.Craigkillie has summarised it perfectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Part of developing a proper pyramid should be that finally the different structures get united under 1, so 1 league for the East of Scotland. This artificial divide in non-league football should go. There is no difference between junior & senior non-league if all clubs are in the pyramid, so why have different leagues for the same area? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Clydebank won’t be joining the EoS at tier 7 when they’ll be at tier 6 in the West. The SFA wouldn’t be aligning discipline,registrations etc if the Juniors weren’t getting in from next season! Its not what the EoS want but despite what Burnieman says there is no veto. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Clydebank won’t be joining the EoS at tier 7 when they’ll be at tier 6 in the West. The SFA wouldn’t be aligning discipline,registrations etc if the Juniors weren’t getting in from next season! Its not what the EoS want but despite what Burnieman says there is no veto. Eosfl don't have a problem with the west coming in. The problem is ersjfa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Clydebank won’t be joining the EoS at tier 7 when they’ll be at tier 6 in the West. The SFA wouldn’t be aligning discipline,registrations etc if the Juniors weren’t getting in from next season! Its not what the EoS want but despite what Burnieman says there is no veto.There's no veto, but all members of the PWG need to be in agreement and there has to be consensus in order for rules to be changed, as I and others have explained. The discussions about disciplinary etc are taking place, but there is no actual plan on the table. If there is, show us it. It's a weird one, Clydebank are defacto EoS members yet have someone very highly placed at the SJFA who are working against the best interests of the EoS. Conflict of interest? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 The problem remains the SFA They are are hiding behind a PWG whilst encouraging the SJFA with promises they can't fully fulfil.Its now January and how 2019/20 will run is still unknown. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 There's no veto, but all members of the PWG need to be in agreement and there has to be consensus in order for rules to be changed, as I and others have explained. The discussions about disciplinary etc are taking place, but there is no actual plan on the table. If there is, show us it. It's a weird one, Clydebank are defacto EoS members yet have someone very highly placed at the SJFA who are working against the best interests of the EoS. Conflict of interest? No one is anti- EOS. All Clydebank want is a fair open pyramid structure, we want that for ourselves and any club wishing to join it. Yes Matt has a senior position but is working to improve Scottish football. Do you even know what position he is working towards with regards the East? Remember the EJFA and WJFA operate as separate entities and the SJFA is TJ acting alone it’d seem. I’d prefer the Bankies to join a WOSL independent of the juniors, but I do think should nothing happen in the next couple of months we will be going to the East. Lets face it 3 months down the line and no one is any clearer on the mistimed statement. I disagree with Benches tact on this matter, I’d actually prefer to join the south at tier 6 than remain junior at tier 6. Anyway the whole thing is a mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) The South would be an option if it looked like the top clubs in the West were going to avoid promotion by not getting licensed imo. There is no chance of us joining the EoS at tier 7 next season. Like I said the SFA have started to align discipline etc for the Juniors to join from next season.Why would they be doing that if it wasn’t happening. Edited January 3, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Like I said the SFA have started to align discipline etc for the Juniors to join from next season.Why would they be doing that if it wasn’t happening. It's the one thing in the SJFA's control to do and they want in the pyramid so that more of their membership don't bolt. It doesn't change the fact that there are aspects around integration that have to be resolved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: No one is anti- EOS. All Clydebank want is a fair open pyramid structure, we want that for ourselves and any club wishing to join it. Yes Matt has a senior position but is working to improve Scottish football. Do you even know what position he is working towards with regards the East? Remember the EJFA and WJFA operate as separate entities and the SJFA is TJ acting alone it’d seem. I’d prefer the Bankies to join a WOSL independent of the juniors, but I do think should nothing happen in the next couple of months we will be going to the East. Lets face it 3 months down the line and no one is any clearer on the mistimed statement. I disagree with Benches tact on this matter, I’d actually prefer to join the south at tier 6 than remain junior at tier 6. Anyway the whole thing is a mess. The SJFA VP / WRJFA President is also match secretary at a club who want to leave the SJFA and join the EoS. Yet the SJFA’s pursuit of Pyramid entry appears to give zero consideration for the EoS. Perhaps I’m being unfair but it looks a little odd. It’s clear where KB stands but for his benefit, West Region entry into the Pyramid is clearly the sensible route for Clydebank to take if it happens for next season, I don’t think anyone disagrees on that point. That’s a different issue to the one that exists in the east where Clydebank could end up next season. The SJFA are discussing with the SFA various issues which need to be aligned IF they are to enter the Pyramid. However as it stands, no plan as to how that will look has been presented to the members of the PWG for them to discuss and reach consensus. I would also assume that once that plan is presented to the PWG, the EoS would refer it back to its own members for discussion, same with the LL. Let’s face it, if this was a case of “done deal” as some claim, then why no press release or official confirmation from the SFA and the SJFA? As you say, it’s a mess as it currently stands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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