Grandparent rule

[BB_Bino]

When people talk about English parents changing at this moment in time (forget the past, that’s irrelevant), they are often talking about Angus Gunn, Ryan Fredericks & Che Adams, with maybe one or two executions else where.

Now, I don’t care who you are, with what I have seen of these 3 players they are an improvement on what we already have, especially Fredericks & Adams as we are crying out for a Right Back and Striker, so if they are interested, get them in and get them capped, as long as they are in for the slog when times are hard and willing to commit to improving. At this moment they are not, but that doesn’t stop us from continually asking for updates.

[The Moonster]

 

On 07/09/2019 at 07:37, effeffsee_the2nd said:

folk seem to think patriotism is  universal, its not . its just higher than average amongst international sports fans.  players will do whatever the can to further their own careers.

it does defeat the point in nternational sports. I'd like to see it reduced to either born, parents or having spent the bulk of a childhood here so that only players who can honestly call the country home can play. not because it will make us any better but because we already have club football for scouting and signing players from anywhere and that's not the point in internationals

Except this rule doesn't allow any country to "sign players from anywhere" so we can ignore this nonsense right off the bat.

On 07/09/2019 at 09:56, Ingo ohne Flamingo said:

If you call yourself Scottish then fair enough. 

You're a moron.

[SpoonTon]

I've always thought the grandparent rule to be a step too far. Parentage, I can understand. And we're at a disadvantage because we cannot do what Russia, for example, have done and pick players who have lived here long enough to qualify. But the grandparent link seems a bit too tenuous for representing what a nation can produce in footballing terms. I think it's unfair that you could live here from 14, play all your football here, and not be able to play for Scotland while someone who has a grandparent born in Scotland (they wouldn't even have needed to have lived here for very long) is eligible to play for Scotland. Our particular situation is a bit shit. 

I certainly wouldn't want us to put ourselves at a disadvantage by not trying to take advantage of the rule (since it's there), but I think it works against us when we're picking really poor players like CMS or Jamie Mackie because they have a Scottish grandparent. It's there if we can take advantage of it, but it just isn't a credible part of any medium to long term plan to improve the quality of players we can produce - so it should never be used to bring in mediocre players (and that's the way that we've tended to use it). 

The fact of the matter is that the grandparent rule has never really made a different to the quality at our disposal. It's neither here nor there, really.  

[Scary Bear]

The grandparents rule doesn’t seem to work for Scotland. Unless getting squad-fillers in and never qualifying is what we are aiming for.

If it worked in a more Irelandy way, i’d be more up for it. As it is, i’m not really up for it. Unless it’s a superstar in which case i’ve always been in favour and have never doubted his inner Scottishness.

If your parents are from here but you’ve been born and grown up in another country and all your friends are from that other country, how Scottish do you actually feel? Same if you were born here but brought up somewhere else by parents who aren’t Scottish.

So, it’s only people, born here, whose parents are both Scottish and who will stay here forever. Who are we left with?

 

 

[No_Problemo]

More and more kids are being brought up be their grandparents - should they really be excluded?!

 

Born in England, move to Scotland to be brought up by their Grandparents. Or even living in England with Scottish grandparents.

[Savage Henry]

More and more kids are being brought up be their grandparents - should they really be excluded?!
 
Born in England, move to Scotland to be brought up by their Grandparents. Or even living in England with Scottish grandparents.

Course they shouldn’t. It’s a perfectly reasonable familial attachment. Is a player better than currently available?

I guess the argument is that Matt Phillips or whoever wasn’t raised by his grandparents, as far as we know. But to me, it doesn’t make any difference. The familial tie is still there.

[HibeeJibee]

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Worth noting that the closest we have got to a major championships this century was when we beat England at Wembley in the Euro 2000 play off. The scorer that evening? Gateshead born and bred Don Hutchison.

 

21 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Born in England, move to Scotland to be brought up by their Grandparents.

Tbf both those scenarios would not be affected by the topic of this thread... Hutchison's father was Scottish - miner who moved coalfields IIRC - while kids growing up here would pass the 'schooling test'.

[No_Problemo]

Course they shouldn’t. It’s a perfectly reasonable familial attachment. Is a player better than currently available?

I guess the argument is that Matt Phillips or whoever wasn’t raised by his grandparents, as far as we know. But to me, it doesn’t make any difference. The familial tie is still there.

Yeah - that would be the argument and I guess it’s impossible to distinguish between the two, I think the rule is fine the way it is as it covers situations like this.

Tbf both those scenarios would not be affected by the topic of this thread... Hutchison's father was Scottish - miner who moved coalfields IIRC - while kids growing up here would pass the 'schooling test'.

Yeah I get that - was why I added in the bit about being born in England and staying in England with Scottish grandparents.

[Scumjob]

The lads born in England to Scottish grandparents get a bit of flack sometimes but if they're willing to come and play for this shower then we shouldn't be questioning their commitment.

The rules are the rules for better or worse and while other nations are taking advantage so must we.

Hark at rugby where all four home nations (us in particular) are chock full of South Africans, Australians, Kiwis, Pacific Islanders and for us English. At least it's not that shambolic yet.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Scumjob

[SpoonTon]

2 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

More and more kids are being brought up be their grandparents - should they really be excluded?!

 

Born in England, move to Scotland to be brought up by their Grandparents. Or even living in England with Scottish grandparents.

In that case, why should children born in England and adopted by Scottish parents living in England be excluded? 

The problem is that, as far as I know, the rule is not there to cover such scenarios. It's simply about biology. It would be better if the spirit of the rule was actually about taking such circumstances into consideration, then the rules could at least be adjusted to take certain situations into account. 

[nsr]

I'd have to agree that if international football is going to become as mercenary as club football, there really isn't much point in it. I would suspect that for many (most?) players and fans, it's little more than a distraction from the real games that matter or in the case of the World Cup/continental tournaments, something to tide us over during the summer.

[ICTChris]

Plenty of other international teams have players who don't have grandparent links to the country they play for - look at Diego Costa

[GAD]

2 hours ago, Scumjob said:

The lads born in England to Scottish grandparents get a bit of flack sometimes but if they're willing to come and play for this shower then we shouldn't be questioning their commitment.

The rules are the rules for better or worse and while other nations are taking advantage so must we.

Hark at rugby where all four home nations (us in particular) are chock full of South Africans, Australians, Kiwis, Pacific Islanders and for us English. At least it's not that shambolic yet.

The football te should be more like the rugby team. The SRU have people in all the rugby playing countries with a high Scottish diaspora looking for good quality players with a Scottish parent or grandparent. This has improved the Scottish national team immensely.

[DiegoDiego]

In that case, why should children born in England and adopted by Scottish parents living in England be excluded? 
The problem is that, as far as I know, the rule is not there to cover such scenarios. It's simply about biology. It would be better if the spirit of the rule was actually about taking such circumstances into consideration, then the rules could at least be adjusted to take certain situations into account. 

Tony Cascarino had zero Irish blood.

[Marshmallo]

I can't imagine why it was Phillips singled out from every single "non-Scot" we've ever had.

At least the fuckwit in the OP isn't posting any more boring shite about his wife, his two bed semi in Larbert, or soaking naked men he barely knows with a hose in the changing room after an amateur football game.

[mizfit]

The grandparents rule isn’t the problem.

The problem is the mentality in the camp. When players like McBurnie are allegedly saying they don’t want to be called up because it’s shite concerns me.

Granted he’s shite himself, but who else is secretly thinking it’s shite and wants back to their club.

[nsr]

There has to be a desire to play for the country. I'm not suggesting that means 11 Colin Hendry clones wearing kilts and wielding claymores while tanning litres of whisky and bawling out Flower of Scotland for 90 mins, but a squad of limited talent such as we have can't get away with carrying anyone who isn't ready to bleed for the cause.

[BB_Bino]

More and more kids are being brought up be their grandparents - should they really be excluded?!

Excellent point. My parents were/are not sporty in anyway, but when I was growing up, my Dad was in the navy and was away a lot and my Mum was a nurse who was permanent night shift. So I was raised quite heavily by my Grandparents.

It was my Grandad’s influence on me that initially got me into football (and rugby) and although we never went to any international games, he was a proud Scot that ensured that we would watch every Scotland International, football or rugby on the TV and follow the nation. I was born and raised in Scotland but it was my Grandad who made me feel Scottish, something that I am trying to do with my own children.....who’s not to say there’s not kids coming through the English/Spanish/German/American/etc etc football system with similar a similar story to me?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mizfit said:

The grandparents rule isn’t the problem.

The problem is the mentality in the camp. When players like McBurnie are allegedly saying they don’t want to be called up because it’s shite concerns me.

Granted he’s shite himself, but who else is secretly thinking it’s shite and wants back to their club.

Scotland are NEVER going to be among the top teams in this modern era, so basically these guys need to accept that if we're pish then it's only themselves to blame for this, as ultimately they themselves are the root cause.

The bottom line is that you play to represent your country, if you don't fancy it then fair enough, you'll not be missed. What we don't want is anyone who doesn't want to be there and not 100% committed as frankly there's no world beaters and nobody who we should be begging to play for us.

Taking the likes of NI, Rep and even Iceland and Finland as examples, it would be easy to argue that we have far better players available and much more strength in depth, however these countries seem to play to their strengths, show more aggression and really seem to want it more. Maybe we're brainwashed with this "playing the game properly" nonsense, when in fact we should be harrying the opposition at every opportunity and playing the long high ball if and when required. Who knows ?

Whatever the reasons, the fact remains that we're just not at the races at the moment................