coprolite Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, beefybake said: It's your choice whether to be illuminated, or not. And actually you used the US as a reference point. The link is there for you to read and digest, and draw conclusions from, or not. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52234061 Thanks for the link. 6.8% of German spending is by the govt compared to 79% on the uk. The balance is pretty much insurance. 29% of German spending is on hospitals compared to 42% of the UKs. The overall difference could be easily accounted for by Germans paying insurers dividends and using proportionally more higher margin discretionary services. Might not be though, maybe they just provide more through community channels and maybe private provision is more efficient. Given the difficulties in compiling any economic measure i'm inclined to think that the headline difference of 13% doesn't show a significant difference in healthcare provision, and that consequently it is more likely that it's testing levels that are making the most difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Tim Brooke Taylor died with covid 19. f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Rodhull said: The UK’s much lower rate of testing and it’s inefficient methods of statistical recording of data not giving a true measure of the numbers of related deaths is also important. Whilst not a comparison to Ireland there are a lot more countries than Germany with high population density similar to the UK that are performing far better than the UK is so I’m not sure London’s population is quite the scapegoat people want it to be. Agree on the testing - it has been inadequate but in itself is not a silver bullet. The data is indeed a total shambles and it is indefensible. Population density is a tricky one for the UK. The only countries in Europe with a higher population density (excluding the microstates and Channel Islands etc) are Malta, the Netherlands and Belgium. None of these have a city anywhere near the size of London either despite the population densities. England taken on its own is significantly more densely populated than Belgium. There isn't a country with the population size of England that can match it for population density, and indeed there are few that match it for population density at all. Even Belgium is around 65 people per square Km less densely populated. Thing is, the mass gatherings referred to were around 4 weeks ago and so arguably we are seeing the consequences of them now. I don't really recall much opposition to these being held at the time. It is clear in hindsight that this was a huge mistake. Edited April 12, 2020 by Michael W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 We're never going to have an accurate figure for Covid-19 deaths in the UK. Whenever this is all over - if it ever is - we will get a death tally, let's say 25,000 for the sake of a figure. This will immediately be dismissed by most folk with reactions ranging from an "Aye, right" to full on CONSHPIRACY theories complete with graphs, videos and personal accounts from "my mate's a nurse/mortuary attendant/funeral director/bin man/timber merchant/unemployed fantasist like I am and he says..." "Authoritative" guesstimates ranging from twice the official figure to six times the official figure will be bandied about and get accepted as gospel and regurgitated for years to come. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Boris is off to Chequers to recuperate. Great news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, Michael W said: Agree on the testing - it has been inadequate but in itself is not a silver bullet. The data is indeed a total shambles and it is indefensible. Population density is a tricky one for the UK. The only countries in Europe with a higher population density (excluding the microstates and Channel Islands etc) are Malta, the Netherlands and Belgium. None of these have a city anywhere near the size of London either despite the population densities. England taken on its own is significantly more densely populated than Belgium. There isn't a country with the population size of England that can match it for population density, and indeed there are few that match it for population density at all. Even Belgium is around 65 people per square Km less densely populated. Thing is, the mass gatherings referred to were around 4 weeks ago and so arguably we are seeing the consequences of them now. I don't really recall much opposition to these being held at the time. It is clear in hindsight that this was a huge mistake. Everybody has the answers now, but as you say, did they have the answers then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Boris is off to Chequers to recuperate. Great news. Surely that's a second home and not a necessary journey? Asking for a Ms Calderwood. Edited April 12, 2020 by Jacksgranda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Everybody has the answers now, but as you say, did they have the answers then? It was pretty much bang on 4 weeks ago that folk were being told not to go to pubs, not to go to clubs, not to gather in large groups. Needless to say large swathes of the population just ignored the f**k out of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Boris is off to Chequers to recuperate. Great news. A sad day indeed for those Nats that wanted him dead. -11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Gaz said: It was pretty much bang on 4 weeks ago that folk were being told not to go to pubs, not to go to clubs, not to gather in large groups. Needless to say large swathes of the population just ignored the f**k out of that. We did however allow Cheltenham and other events to go ahead despite that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleMoo Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Pretty much covers what's been discussed on here over the last couple of days. This is a fucking national scandal https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/12/uk-coronavirus-deaths-preventable-government-account 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_j Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I’ve given up watch the news. The MSM are not great at best of times but have sunk to a new low during this crisis with their lack of scrutiny. As other have said a couple of weeks ago Italy and France were being portrayed as disaster areas yet the equivalent death rate in the UK is being reported completely differently. ETA also how the government is getting away with the same bullshit about PPE and ventilators every day virtually unchallenged is appalling. It’s embarrassing Even by their own ridiculously low standards they have really outdone themselves 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 47 minutes ago, coprolite said: Thanks for the link. 6.8% of German spending is by the govt compared to 79% on the uk. The balance is pretty much insurance. 29% of German spending is on hospitals compared to 42% of the UKs. The overall difference could be easily accounted for by Germans paying insurers dividends and using proportionally more higher margin discretionary services. Might not be though, maybe they just provide more through community channels and maybe private provision is more efficient. Given the difficulties in compiling any economic measure i'm inclined to think that the headline difference of 13% doesn't show a significant difference in healthcare provision, and that consequently it is more likely that it's testing levels that are making the most difference. Testing makes a huge difference. However, the rest of your statement is obfuscation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Only an uber p***k would even have such thoughts. A sad day indeed for those Nats that wanted him dead. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 A sad day indeed for those Nats that wanted him dead. You wanted him dead more than anyone else you fucking ghoulish loser 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, beefybake said: Testing makes a huge difference. However, the rest of your statement is obfuscation. That's the point. You can't draw any meaningful conclusion from a headline figure like that. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Sounds almost human at bits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 58 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Boris is off to Chequers to recuperate. Great news. Out on Easter Sunday. I never saw that one coming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said: Out on Easter Sunday. I never saw that one coming. He's speaking remarkably well, must have put him at an open window. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Rugster said: Think it might be a while before he shows himself again after his shocker yesterday. I’ve obviously missed something. Can anyone enlighten me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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