Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That wasn't what I replied to though - you were being a c**t with your comment about teachers.
 

The only c***s that I can see in this scenario are those who would refuse to fulfil their contracted workload despite receiving 100% of their pay from taxpayer funds and who would be willing to chuck thousands of young people on the scrapheap by failing to equip them to achieve credible qualifications. I'm sure that future employers will be delighted to take on the vintage 'don't ask that question in the exam please as we didn't cover it' cohort of 20/21.

Needless to say that the middle class scions of teachers will get plenty of home schooling and private tutoring if needed to make sure that they don't lose out as a result of hundreds of lost hours of state-funded instruction time. It'll be the weans living in the worst possible conditions who will be left to flounder because their supposed adult role models preferred a ski jaunt to the Alps during the February week instead. Which takes us nicely full circle back to where the UK outbreak came from. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by vikingTON

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The only c***s that I can see in this scenario are those who would refuse to fulfil their contracted workload despite receiving 100% of their pay from taxpayer funds and who would be willing to chuck thousands of young people on the scrapheap by failing to equip them to achieve credible qualifications. I'm sure that future employers will be delighted to take on the vintage 'don't ask that question in the exam please as we didn't cover it' cohort of 20/21.
Needless to say that the middle class scions of teachers will get plenty of home schooling and private tutoring if needed to make sure that they don't lose out as a result of hundreds of lost hours of state-funded instruction time. It'll be the weans living in the worst possible conditions who will be left to flounder because their supposed adult role models preferred a ski jaunt to the Alps during the February week instead. Which takes us nicely full circle back to where the UK outbreak came from. 

That really is a ridiculously pig ignorant view of what teachers have been doing.

Its fucking offensive - but then you know that.

[Thereisalight..]

I’m not a horse racing fan by any means, but I thought it was starting back in Scotland (behind closed doors) from June 22nd? I haven’t heard any more about it being approved by the SG. Anyone know what’s happening?

[Mark Connolly]

3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I flippantly posted that school kids will be fine with a break in their education and VT greenied it to illustrate how genuinely felt his recent material is.

Combined with him alluding to having taught in some capacity at some point I think there's a wee bit of missing back story here to explain the animosity to the teaching profession

Struck off by the GTC would be my bet

[Wee Bully]

That really is a ridiculously pig ignorant view of what teachers have been doing.

Its fucking offensive - but then you know that.

Of course he does. And Todd_is_God will be along to white knight him any minute.

[Thereisalight..]

.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Thereisalight..

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Of course he does. And Todd_is_God will be along to white knight him any minute.

To be fair to Todd_is_God he greenied my post.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

A&E visits are down almost 50%, hospital deaths are lower than at any point in the last 5 years, and deaths at home are higher.
It's not a stretch to suggest some of those home deaths may not have occurred had people visited a hospital.

Just like VT’s suggestion that an “excessive lockdown” would be excessive you’re correct but not not particularly useful .


But to replace “some” with something more meaningful is more of a challenge and probably calls for a bit more data

[Todd_is_God]

8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

But to replace “some” with something more meaningful is more of a challenge and probably calls for a bit more data

 

I'm assuming now is not the time to use the "any deaths is too many" line being punted about a wee while back as that only applies to Covid-19 deaths?

I'm well aware that is a pedantic, arsey way of looking at it, but it highlights the ridiculous notion that deaths by one particular cause matter more or must be avoided at all costs more so than any other.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

In hindsight expert mode again.

Anyone watching (especially the elderly and those with underlying health conditions) those horrific videos from Italy at the start of the crisis would have thought "f**k me - I'm not going near a hospital".

Can you blame them?

About 8 weeks ago my wife had to make an urgent appointment with the doctor and after triage over the phone had to go for a consulatation. At the end up he offered her a hospital bed - she refused

[Todd_is_God]

I'm sure it's a coincidence that the pub and tourism sector being told to gear up for opening on the 15th of July coincides with the start of the English school holidays.

Really kind of "the science" ensuring that what is best for Scotland matched that exactly...

[Jacksgranda]

46 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I flippantly posted that school kids will be fine with a break in their education and VT greenied it to illustrate how genuinely felt his recent material is.

Combined with him alluding to having taught in some capacity at some point I think there's a wee bit of missing back story here to explain the animosity to the teaching profession

Was it not in America? 

[pandarilla]

The only c***s that I can see in this scenario are those who would refuse to fulfil their contracted workload despite receiving 100% of their pay from taxpayer funds and who would be willing to chuck thousands of young people on the scrapheap by failing to equip them to achieve credible qualifications. I'm sure that future employers will be delighted to take on the vintage 'don't ask that question in the exam please as we didn't cover it' cohort of 20/21.
Needless to say that the middle class scions of teachers will get plenty of home schooling and private tutoring if needed to make sure that they don't lose out as a result of hundreds of lost hours of state-funded instruction time. It'll be the weans living in the worst possible conditions who will be left to flounder because their supposed adult role models preferred a ski jaunt to the Alps during the February week instead. Which takes us nicely full circle back to where the UK outbreak came from. 

You make some good points on here but it's completely outweighed by shite like this.

Shame. So close to being box office.

I'm sure it's a coincidence that the pub and tourism sector being told to gear up for opening on the 15th of July coincides with the start of the English school holidays.
Really kind of "the science" ensuring that what is best for Scotland matched that exactly...

I managed to get a couple of local mini breaks booked today. Well chuffed. It makes a difference when you've got something concrete to look forward to.

[Diamonds are Forever]

5 hours ago, SJP79 said:

But the deaths and cases are low because of the lockdown, you need to be very careful of becoming complacent and seeing a surge in cases again. 

 

Where is your evidence for this?

It's just become taken as fact that extended lockdowns are effective, when there is very little evidence of this and plenty which contradicts it.

In terms of deaths per million of population Sweden, with no lockdown, have less deaths than UK, Spain and Italy. They are pretty level with Scotland, as of 2 days ago Sweden were 468 per million and we were 443. How does this back up the idea that lockdown is holding back cases? Sweden's curve has followed pretty much the same pattern as every other country who had lockdowns.

Also, virtually no country who has released lockdown have seen any significant rise in cases (arguably Iran but apparently that is due to increase in testing). Again, if lockdown is what is suppressing cases then surely when released we would see increases across the board? That's not happening.

There is also data coming out showing that some countries hit their peak and decline in cases before lockdown even happened - Norway being the most recent to say this. Yet again, this does not tie in with the 'cases are low because lockdown' idea.

I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't have been used or that they serve no purpose. Knowing what we knew at the time I think we had no choice. If done early enough I think there is some evidence they can be effective if you then can implement a track and trace system. But the question is whether they have any purpose 10 weeks after first being implemented, and months after the virus started becoming widespread. There is this unquestioned assumption among most people that these lockdowns still in place are having some benefit despite a lack of any evidence that this is the case. This really matters, as has been said numerous times already a huge number of people are going to be affected by this lockdown in very serious ways, far more than the number of people now being affected by Covid. I've yet to see any evidence that it is still justified.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[Todd_is_God]

12 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

It's just become taken as fact that extended lockdowns are effective, when there is very little evidence of this and plenty which contradicts it.

I've posted this before but I think it's a great example of how infections do not shoot up as restrictions are eased.

Germany first eased restrictions almost 7 weeks ago now, and has seen a continued decline since.

"The science" in Germany cannot be so different to "the science" here.

No idea why the SG cannot look to a success story and see what is working and, more importantly, why and then tailor that to here.

[welshbairn]

39 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Where is your evidence for this?

It's just become taken as fact that extended lockdowns are effective, when there is very little evidence of this and plenty which contradicts it.

In terms of deaths per million of population Sweden, with no lockdown, have less deaths than UK, Spain and Italy. They are pretty level with Scotland, as of 2 days ago Sweden were 468 per million and we were 443. How does this back up the idea that lockdown is holding back cases? Sweden's curve has followed pretty much the same pattern as every other country who had lockdowns.

Also, virtually no country who has released lockdown have seen any significant rise in cases (arguably Iran but apparently that is due to increase in testing). Again, if lockdown is what is suppressing cases then surely when released we would see increases across the board? That's not happening.

There is also data coming out showing that some countries hit their peak and decline in cases before lockdown even happened - Norway being the most recent to say this. Yet again, this does not tie in with the 'cases are low because lockdown' idea.

I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't have been used or that they serve no purpose. Knowing what we knew at the time I think we had no choice. If done early enough I think there is some evidence they can be effective if you then can implement a track and trace system. But the question is whether they have any purpose 10 weeks after first being implemented, and months after the virus started becoming widespread. There is this unquestioned assumption among most people that these lockdowns still in place are having some benefit despite a lack of any evidence that this is the case. This really matters, as has been said numerous times already a huge number of people are going to be affected by this lockdown in very serious ways, far more than the number of people now being affected by Covid. I've yet to see any evidence that it is still justified.

 

What you say about Sweden doesn't explain this.

Quote

The country’s death rate per million from COVID-19 remains below Europe’s worst-affected nations, such as the U.K. and Spain, but is now 10 times that of neighboring Norway and eight times that of Finland.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/sweden-coronavirus-312838

[Mistermark 75]

Get aw these graphs tae f**k!!! 

[coprolite]

15 minutes ago, Mistermark 75 said:

Get aw these graphs tae f**k!!! 

Fan of tables are we? 

[peasy23]

Lot of truth in this tweet.

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That really is a ridiculously pig ignorant view of what teachers have been doing.

Its fucking offensive - but then you know that.

Well no, 'what teachers have been doing' is around 50% of their ordinary workload by virtue of not actually being in a physical classroom, trying to control a bunch of screaming weans and marking all their home/course work at the end of the day. Despite the myth of hero teachers doing just as much work now as before, Zooming from online wonder lesson to the next, that nefarious, right wing, teacher-hating body known as, err, the Children's Commissioner confirms that this is in fact utter bollocks:

https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/2020/06/11/the-numbers-behind-homeschooling-during-lockdown/

Quote

The most common amount of time to spend on schoolwork per day is 1 to 2 hours for young children and 2 to 3 hours for teenagers, a substantial reduction from the 5+ hours children would be spending at school per day.

Quote

Once again, the inconsistency in remote school experience is seen in the proportion of children who are having their work marked by teachers. Some are getting nothing marked, some are getting everything marked and some have no work that is expected to be assessed (even though they have some work to do).

If any other group of employees was doing so little work then it would have its wages cut accordingly. As state employees, the onus is on teachers to make up for those lost hours before the next exam cycle so that thousands of young adults aren't tossed into the scrapheap. And any hours required above that to get them up to standard should incur additional overtime pay. 

There's no credible argument against this whatsoever.

Edited June 12, 2020 by vikingTON