Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ICTChris]

Well, Shaggy...
There is a third option - that this Government, yet again, are assuming that the electorate will simply believe that they're not being a set of disingeuous cúnts. Of course there's little evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools. How could there be, when the vast majority (or vast, vast majority -© Todd) of schools have been closed for the last five and a half months?
Like Patel's crowing over the decrease in shoplifting, burglary and driving offences, the circumstances of lockdown may just conceivably have had a teeny tiny influence on things.
I don't know which makes me angrier - the Tories' belief that the Great British Public will swallow any old shite, or the GBP's repeated proof that they're right.

I’m pretty sure that the evidence of virus transmission in schools used by the U.K. and Scottish governments came from studies in other countries rather than them saying “well there’s been no cases in schools since we closed them so they must be safe!”.

[D.A.F.C]

Yeah, we should lockdown indefinitely, and see what's left. The basic principles of risk management (alarp) dont apply here. We should just see what's left of a functioning society once the worlds population has been successfully vaccinated

I didnt say that, schools need to stay open and people need to work but the government needs to tell the truth and that schools aren't different to pubs.
Pubs bad schools magical gumdrop fairy land.

[Guest JTS98]

Again people on this thread are making the assertion that covid-19 will simply pass for most people without any complications.

It cannot be underlined enough that nobody yet knows this to be the case. We do not know what the long-term impact of this virus is, even on people who had a mild case. Yet repeatedly we see armchair experts insisting that it'll be fine.

It's sad that this thread has come to be dominated by what seems to be a small number of seemingly ideologically-guided posters who continue to make bizarre and illogical statements on the actions of government and who make blanket statements on the long-term effects of covid-19 that nobody can back up.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists#

"But with the crisis just months old, no one knows how far into the future symptoms will endure, and whether COVID-19 will prompt the onset of chronic diseases."

"For Götz Martin Richter, a radiologist at the Klinikum Stuttgart in Germany, what’s especially striking is that just as the illness’ acute symptoms vary unpredictably, so, too, do those that linger. Richter thinks of two patients he has treated: a middle-aged man who experienced mild pneumonia from COVID-19, and an elderly woman already suffering from chronic leukemia and arterial disease, who almost died from the virus and had to be resuscitated. Three months later, the man with the mild case “falls asleep all day long and cannot work,” Richter says. The woman has minimal lung damage and feels fine."

 

[Michael W]

31 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Armstrong has been a baller in the past. 

People were calling for Fleck to be called up for a few seasons now.

The Mayor has been a major part of Norwich's success.

Yet for Scotland they all become plodding, dense, fuckwits who can't drive forward, get into a dangerous central area, pick a forward pass and can't close down their counterparts quickly enough!? What the actual f**k man. 

When Clark took over I thought he'd at least get the team closing down and attacking with a higher sense of urgency, but we've fallen back into the pedestrian shit we've been treated to for years. 

Yeah, but what are his thoughts on getting crowds back at the football? 

[Bairnardo]

I didnt say that, schools need to stay open and people need to work but the government needs to tell the truth and that schools aren't different to pubs.
Pubs bad schools magical gumdrop fairy land.

Maybe dont look at it in childish terms of good and bad then, and instead consider what's neccessary and what's a luxury?

I want pubs open as much as anyone, but considering them, or indeed lower league Scottish football to be in the same bracket of importance to schools is laughable.

[8MileBU]

26 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Actually, me and Mrs Bs work is generally flexible enough that we can look after our kids with no issues, so your generic wailing about childcare for the millionth time in this thread doesnt really apply to me. Hard lines.

Risk management of course involves residual risk. In this case, a certain number of cases and even deaths is considered acceptable residual risk, and closing schools with the associated damage to children's wellbeing, and the economic fallout that would follow is not considered reasonably practicable to avoid said deaths. 

Evidently, stopping people going to a Stranraer game is considered reasonably practicable, because the damage done/associated cost is minimal to take that measure. IDGAF whether you think that's right or wrong. I am simply saying what is plain to see to anyone who's not an idiot. That's what's happening here. 

Yep, similar childcare circumstances as myself and Mrs BU, and the same applies to the majority of our family and friends too. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

7 minutes ago, Snafu said:

It's not acceptable to be lied to and patronised like a child who they think doesn't know any better. Most people will realise that the previous and current situation is unsustainable and right now everyone should be in economy damage limitation mode and of course still looking after own health and their loved ones. We are going to have to take the hit when it comes to the infection rate in schools, it is a real bonus and relief that the virus does not effect children the way it does other age groups, imagine if it did we would be absolutely paralised right now.

We really do need to move forward, I think the consequences the longer the restrictions go on the worse it will end up, I'm dreading the coming winter.

I don't envy both government's position right now its a tough balancing act with a lot at stake, just wish they would be more transparent with us.

I only get reports of the SG's actions on here, really, but I have been inturns enraged, appalled and terrified by the combination of arrogance and incompetence displayed by those in charge at Westminster. From Day One, they've been following their paymasters' instructions, while blithely allowing the lower orders - as they see it - of the population to die and suffer. The actions around Care Homes were not on a par with Corporate manslaughter - they passed the test of premeditation to allow me to describe hancock, accurately, as a murderer.

"Oh, Dishy Rishi is giving all sorts of financial pressies to the GBP!" - no he isn't, you absolute fúcking idiots. He's ensuring that there won't be a massive recruitment issue for employers when they restart. I hope you enjoyed your half-price pizzas and curries - your kids and grandkids will still be paying for them when you're long cold.

"Stay at Home, go to work" - Brilliant, de Pfeffel. Any more gems? "Stay two metres apart. No, stay one metre plus." OK, what does "plus" mean, then? "eh, eh, what would Corbyn have done? World-Beating.. Brexit negotiations..Go to work..stay at home.."

I've said it before - I would rather have fúcking Thatcher in charge right now - that bitch was evil, but she was also undeniably capable.

[Marshmallo]

20 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Maybe dont look at it in childish terms of good and bad then, and instead consider what's neccessary and what's a luxury?

I want pubs open as much as anyone, but considering them, or indeed lower league Scottish football to be in the same bracket of importance to schools is laughable.

Try telling that to people who work in football or hospitality 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Try telling that to people who work in football or hospitality 

Put one in front of me, then - I can't wait to hear how Partick getting the crowds back, or those crowds getting to go for a pint is in any way as important as the education of our next generation.

Football's great, and we all like to go out for a meal or a few pints. I would appreciate it, though, if, in a few years, there is some young doctor or nurse bright enough to operate the machines keeping me alive.

Where do you think Maslow would have put Stranraer V. Elgin or a session on the Tennents?

[D.A.F.C]

I’m pretty sure that the evidence of virus transmission in schools used by the U.K. and Scottish governments came from studies in other countries rather than them saying “well there’s been no cases in schools since we closed them so they must be safe!”.

The school bojo visited is now shut for new cases.

[Steve_Wilkos]

There has been several outbreaks at schools in Teesside. 

One case - child has symptoms and gets a test on Thursday. His parents are told to keep the kid off school until the test results arrive. They can't be arsed with that nonsense, and send the kid in on Friday. A positive test result then arrives on Saturday. 

Some people should not be allowed to breed. 

[welshbairn]

47 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Again people on this thread are making the assertion that covid-19 will simply pass for most people without any complications.

It cannot be underlined enough that nobody yet knows this to be the case. We do not know what the long-term impact of this virus is, even on people who had a mild case. Yet repeatedly we see armchair experts insisting that it'll be fine.

It's sad that this thread has come to be dominated by what seems to be a small number of seemingly ideologically-guided posters who continue to make bizarre and illogical statements on the actions of government and who make blanket statements on the long-term effects of covid-19 that nobody can back up.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists#

"But with the crisis just months old, no one knows how far into the future symptoms will endure, and whether COVID-19 will prompt the onset of chronic diseases."

"For Götz Martin Richter, a radiologist at the Klinikum Stuttgart in Germany, what’s especially striking is that just as the illness’ acute symptoms vary unpredictably, so, too, do those that linger. Richter thinks of two patients he has treated: a middle-aged man who experienced mild pneumonia from COVID-19, and an elderly woman already suffering from chronic leukemia and arterial disease, who almost died from the virus and had to be resuscitated. Three months later, the man with the mild case “falls asleep all day long and cannot work,” Richter says. The woman has minimal lung damage and feels fine."

 

Might be of interest..

Quote

File on 4's Covid-19: The Long Road to Recovery is on BBC Radio 4 on Tuesday 8 September at 20:00 and available afterwards on BBC Sounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54031587

[vikingTON]

21 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Put one in front of me, then - I can't wait to hear how Partick getting the crowds back, or those crowds getting to go for a pint is in any way as important as the education of our next generation.

Football's great, and we all like to go out for a meal or a few pints. I would appreciate it, though, if, in a few years, there is some young doctor or nurse bright enough to operate the machines keeping me alive.

Where do you think Maslow would have put Stranraer V. Elgin or a session on the Tennents?

Except that it's not actually a choice between education or 'no education' but rather 'full capacity classroom learning' v 'part capacity blended learning', which every institution has now had nearly six months to prepare for. There's no inherent reason why children need to be in the same building at the same time for 30 hours per week to get an education: it is only set up that way to best suit the interests of parents and the government.

People meanwhile are literally losing their jobs and businesses about to go under as 'the sacrifice' to keep this illogical nonsense show on the road. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by vikingTON

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, virginton said:

People meanwhile are literally losing their jobs and businesses about to go under as 'the sacrifice' to keep this illogical nonsense show on the road. 

People are losing their jobs and businesses not because schools are open, but because their work is not.

Part-time schooling won't solve that.

You're point about the stance that schools being open normally is ok but absolutely anything else isn't being ridiculous is absolutely spot on, just not for the reason you so desperately want to project.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Marshmallo]

The "AV GOAT TWO WEANS" lot will make out everyone else is selfish, and then write sentences like "I want to get back to the pub but..." or "I want to get back to the football but..." 

It's not about the consumer and how you spend your leisure time. The point is that every measure taken will impact different people with different severity. Not everyone lives this identikit existence or works in the same industry.

[Hillonearth]

36 minutes ago, Snafu said:

I wouldn't call myself an armchair expert since I don't have one. I've been pondering buying one of these corner sofas, but it would mean losing a lot of space in my modestly size lounge. They do take up a lot of space, but that's the challenge. Probably will buy a couple of armchairs as well so it will improve my knowledge and the knock on effect it might even help improve my knowledge on other subjects like antiques and the wildlife of the Siberian *****a.

Some like leather chairs and sofas, some prefer fabric, so not sure there.

I suppose also you have to take into consideration the wear factor and if there are any pets in the house.

wtf seriously guys, what is the name of the Siberian forests, starts with T ends in A.

 

"*****a, *****a, burning bright..."

ETA: Aaannd I've just figured out why THAT doesn't work...

Edited September 8, 2020 by Hillonearth

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Actually, me and Mrs Bs work is generally flexible enough that we can look after our kids with no issues, so your generic wailing about childcare for the millionth time in this thread doesnt really apply to me. Hard lines.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you want to do it as well champ: which is in fact the issue that the vast majority of parents have with schools not looking after their sprogs on a 9-half 3 basis for five days a week. And we know that you fall into this category because of your previous posts on this very thread:

On 17/06/2020 at 14:46, Bairnardo said:

Without meaning to be overly simplistic about it, how in the f**k are the people vulnerable enough to be still dying of this actually catching it.

Also, why is Nicola Sturgeon fear mongering with talk of "putting our children's lives at risk"? I am a parent and I personally would put my kids back into school tonorrow.

Here you are, clamouring to chuck your weans into a school in the middle of lockdown itself and screaming at the government who you are now circling the wagons around. 

On 23/03/2020 at 19:31, Bairnardo said:

Local school hubs here overwhelmed and having to ask people to try and accommodate their kids.

Guaranteed they are absolutely full of folk who want to work from home in peace and fired the kids off to school.

And here you are identifying yourself that many parents are desperate to 'fire the kids of to school' for entirely different reasons to the education is precious claptrap you're peddling right now. 

Fooling absolutely no-one then. 

Quote

Risk management of course involves residual risk. In this case, a certain number of cases and even deaths is considered acceptable residual risk, and closing schools with the associated damage to children's wellbeing, and the economic fallout that would follow is not considered reasonably practicable to avoid said deaths. 

Oh good: remind us all how the government's balanced handling of public health risk/economic disruption/the poor weans worked out for us all back in March champ. 

For the umpteenth time, unemployment is already forecast to hit double figures with the schools open - there is going to be an enormous amount of slack in terms of economic activity and the labour force by the time autumn is done with. This isn't World War II then - we really are not depending on every non-essential drone worker/full-time mummy to come into work every day to 'keep the economy going'. If a public health risk means that schools cannot open on a full-time basis (or have to close entirely during a local outbreak) then there are and will be plenty of other people who can work in the absence of those taking up their childcare responsibilities. So mebbe we should prioritise that in the middle of a pandemic instead of throwing everything else under a bus while not actually managing the outbreak anyway. It's not as if the clowncar UK governments have got a good track record on this at it stands. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by vikingTON

[WhiteRoseKillie]

45 minutes ago, Snafu said:

I wouldn't call myself an armchair expert since I don't have one. I've been pondering buying one of these corner sofas, but it would mean losing a lot of space in my modestly size lounge. They do take up a lot of space, but that's the challenge. Probably will buy a couple of armchairs as well so it will improve my knowledge and the knock on effect it might even help improve my knowledge on other subjects like antiques and the wildlife of the Siberian *****a.

Some like leather chairs and sofas, some prefer fabric, so not sure there.

I suppose also you have to take into consideration the wear factor and if there are any pets in the house.

wtf seriously guys, what is the name of the Siberian forests, starts with T ends in A.

 

Tunguska?

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Yeah because we're really applying the principles of risk management by deciding that firing hundreds of grotty weans under the same roof all week is not a significant transmission risk but 250 folk at a Stranraer game or playing even a recording of the devil's instruments in a pub is beyond the pale. 

What you actually mean is 'who cares about proportionate response to risks, just don't take away my state childminder!'

f**k up you!  there's something seriously wrong with anyone who comes onto a discussion forum just to piss other people off and repeat the same line again and again and again,

 

Everyone else , stop responding to him!

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

People are losing their jobs and businesses not because schools are open, but because their work is not.

Part-time schooling won't solve that.

You're point about the stance that schools being open normally is ok but absolutely anything else isn't being ridiculous is absolutely spot on, just not for the reason you so desperately want to project.

Their work is not open because that is deemed to be a necessary 'sacrifice' to keep snippy parents off the government's back. Clownshoes Leitch has said as much many times over. 

If schools were reduced to part-time capacity and therefore credible infection control measures like a restaurant or an office building then the overall risk of community transmission would be much lower and so far fewer 'sacrifices' would have to be made in other sectors.