Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[madwullie]

5 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Do you think the Scottish Government have done a good job with coronavirus overall?

Not particularly. Better than some, stronger a while ago but gone downhill a fair bit recently. Potential for her improving though as she's better hands on and it looks like we'll be getting a bit more hands on again. 

In terms of what they can do, most govts have taken broadly similar measures, whether you agree with it or not they are clearly getting similar advice. 

I know people see it as a typical nippy strategy to blame WM, but you can't ignore that they are tied to WM and that causes issues in how they can deal with it (and gives them outs when they need it) and I don't think you can just put that to the side as not having full control and having your hands tied in many ways compared to others, comparisons aren't generally fair

Do you?  

Edited September 19, 2020 by madwullie

[Alert Mongoose]

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

Scotand using a furlough scheme which is funded by the UK Treasury

Sadly there are people that still think like this.  It renders everything else you say on the subject untrustworthy.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

7 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

When Turkey's infection rate started to creep up they toughened their face mask requirements - not just indoors but outdoors as well - with absolutely no exemptions.

It seems to have been effective as the infection rate has now plateaued.

The observance in Turkey is fantastic, literally the only ones ive seen flouting the rules over here are British people. The wee turkish shop owners shout at them ‘mask’ when they walk past without one. 

[Steven W]

2 hours ago, madwullie said:

Not particularly. Better than some, stronger a while ago but gone downhill a fair bit recently. Potential for her improving though as she's better hands on and it looks like we'll be getting a bit more hands on again. 

In terms of what they can do, most govts have taken broadly similar measures, whether you agree with it or not they are clearly getting similar advice. 

I know people see it as a typical nippy strategy to blame WM, but you can't ignore that they are tied to WM and that causes issues in how they can deal with it (and gives them outs when they need it) and I don't think you can just put that to the side as not having full control and having your hands tied in many ways compared to others, comparisons aren't generally fair

Do you?  

When you say better than some, I'm guessing you mean England, USA, Brazil. But very few others. It's interesting how the right wing governments have failed so badly with this.

You're right in saying SG's hands are tied to some degree by WM (maybe we'd have done better were it not for a certain vote 6 years ago going the wrong way), but the upshot is, no excuses - this has been handled appallingly.

That a second lockdown is on the horizon just goes to emphasise it. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Steven W

[dirty dingus]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The observance in Turkey is fantastic, literally the only ones ive seen flouting the rules over here are British people. The wee turkish shop owners shout at them ‘mask’ when they walk past without one. 

And this is why we can't get a handle on it and are going for black and white thinking, everything open/everything shut. The UK, a collective of entitled c***s from top to bottom.

[djchapsticks]

8 hours ago, madwullie said:

Can't be. I've been assured that masks are useless and actually cause people to breathe in deadly chemicals, CO2, rendering them more dangerous than licking a covid patient. 

What I find baffling is that literally thousands of millions of Muslim women have never mentioned how dangerous it is to wear cloth on your face. 

I worked with a face mask on for 7 hours a day for the best part of 9 years as I used to manufacture grafts and valves for human implant in a clean room environment. 

The assertion that face masks are dangerous is and always has been garbage by the 'I don't like it so won't do it' and 'taking away my liberties' mob. 

As I say 9 years of breathing behind a face mask and I'm not showing any signs of dain bramage. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

I worked with a face mask on for 7 hours a day for the best part of 9 years as I used to manufacture grafts and valves for human implant in a clean room environment. 

The assertion that face masks are dangerous is and always has been garbage by the 'I don't like it so won't do it' and 'taking away my liberties' mob. 

As I say 9 years of breathing behind a face mask and I'm not showing any signs of dain bramage. 

If they're worried they could wear another, less dangerous mask under the anti virus one. Might this be a money spinner of I patent it.

Anyway, 10.00pm closing for pubs. Will the next step be afternoon closures 2.30 to 5.00? It'll be like the good old days.

[Michael W]

7 hours ago, virginton said:

The problem isn't that the government's only solution is lockdowns but rather what they choose to restrict will have a negligible effect. The pubs that they're desperate to pin the blame on for a second wave now were opened at the start of July in England with no significant change. The new distancing rules they created last week are already on their way to the bin as well. As a local public health official in Lancashire noted in a BBC interview this morning, the big surge has occurred in the past two weeks - coinciding with a certain 'reopening' measure in England that has overwhelmed all testing capacity - and yet this misstep won't get rolled back for purely political reasons. There can be no valid case for stating that governments are taking a evidence-based approach until they recognise that their beloved full-time schools are in fact the cause of this current problem and start restrictions from that basis.

The idea that people should accept being locked into their homes in autumn/winter for all reasons except for specific government approved activities like the school run/the office/Pret lunch deals is utterly risible.

I agree. It is also illogical that schools remain open if the government really is worried about the spread of the virus. Chucking a few hundred people into. A small building and indeed small rooms together is fertile ground for spreading the virus despite apparent pretence from the Government that this somehow doesn't happen. 20% of cases in the Czech Republic are now also being diagnosed in school-aged children

But then, this is one of these hard choices that the government has refused to entertain. Everything will be sacrificed at the altar for schools to remain open and seemingly that's the end of it. It's aan untenable position. 

. 

[Andy groundhopper]

From what we see on the TV, the majority of other countries seem to obey the mask wearing idea - all apart from the UK and the USA. Full of anti everything idiots, partying,mass gatherings, big family bbq, and squashed together on the beaches. Says it all about this country.

[Marshmallo]

7 hours ago, virginton said:

The problem isn't that the government's only solution is lockdowns but rather what they choose to restrict will have a negligible effect. The pubs that they're desperate to pin the blame on for a second wave now were opened at the start of July in England with no significant change. The new distancing rules they created last week are already on their way to the bin as well. As a local public health official in Lancashire noted in a BBC interview this morning, the big surge has occurred in the past two weeks - coinciding with a certain 'reopening' measure in England that has overwhelmed all testing capacity - and yet this misstep won't get rolled back for purely political reasons. There can be no valid case for stating that governments are taking a evidence-based approach until they recognise that their beloved full-time schools are in fact the cause of this current problem and start restrictions from that basis.

The idea that people should accept being locked into their homes in autumn/winter for all reasons except for specific government approved activities like the school run/the office/Pret lunch deals is utterly risible.

Not sure I can agree with this. I heard there was a party at Napier University which was causing infection rates to rise.

[Billy Jean King]

Me neither, but the message that any number that isn't zero is both utopian and unrealistic. It isn't helpful either.
When NS promised an adult conversation I thought this would be along the lines of "people will die" and "we will put measures in place if the number starts getting too high" but that was a mile off.
What's essentially happening now is that NS is approaching this in the way that she wants, with the electorate having no say or influence.
You can argue that was necessary, unavoidable and acceptable in March. I'm not convinced it's still all three 6 months later.

We are back to the collateral damage line again which no govt can, should or ever will adopt in a civilised democracy. You are in effect asking a government tasked with public health to deem a level of deaths as acceptable. That is never an option even more so from a viral infection. And you want them to do this as part of an "adult conversation ". You have massively misconstrued that phrase if that's the context you assumed it would take.

As a matter of interest what number of deaths are you willing to deem acceptable to keep you daily routine as normal as possible. If that's the route you advocate you must have a number in mind.

[Donathan]

We are back to the collateral damage line again which no govt can, should or ever will adopt in a civilised democracy. You are in effect asking a government tasked with public health to deem a level of deaths as acceptable. That is never an option even more so from a viral infection. And you want them to do this as part of an "adult conversation ". You have massively misconstrued that phrase if that's the context you assumed it would take.

As a matter of interest what number of deaths are you willing to deem acceptable to keep you daily routine as normal as possible. If that's the route you advocate you must have a number in mind.

Some deaths are fine when the people dying were pretty much close to death from their other conditions anyway.

[Binos]

19 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

We are back to the collateral damage line again which no govt can, should or ever will adopt in a civilised democracy. You are in effect asking a government tasked with public health to deem a level of deaths as acceptable. That is never an option even more so from a viral infection. And you want them to do this as part of an "adult conversation ". You have massively misconstrued that phrase if that's the context you assumed it would take.

As a matter of interest what number of deaths are you willing to deem acceptable to keep you daily routine as normal as possible. If that's the route you advocate you must have a number in mind.
 

But what do we do if we can't stop the virus by any other way than completely crashing the economy and sacrificing the futures of younger generations?

 

It's a bit of a quandary to say the least

Edited September 19, 2020 by Binos

[John MacLean]

It was clear when this all started that this virus was going to lead to some pretty big societal changes. Not least in how and where we work and how and where we enjoy our leisure activities.

I don't know about anyone else but I found the first weeks really tough but at the same time I felt something positive. I felt that just for a brief period we had a more caring, more compassionate society. Don't judge me too harshly but I found the very first 'Clap for Carers' quite moving. Everyone was largely stuck indoors those first few weeks and I felt in coming to our windows we were as much clapping ourselves and checking on each other as we were clapping the frontline care workers.

But as restrictions have loosened I think we have more and more moved towards thinking of ourselves primarily as individuals and not as a wider collective.

Yes, the virus has a greater direct impact on certain demographics and I totally get the frustrations of those who will likely not end up in a hospital bed or a morgue if they pick up the infection having restrictions placed on them that prevent them from living their lives to the full.

Is it beyond the human race though, even for a relatively brief interval, to act not with their own individual wants and needs front and centre but with those of the most vulnerable?

As I said at some point yesterday our individual actions may seem small and insignificant but if widely repeated they can have, both positively and negatively, collective impact.

Sorry of all the crap I've posted on here that's probably the most cringe worthy. Guess I woke up in a strange mood.

[Binos]

3 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

It was clear when this all started that this virus was going to lead to some pretty big societal changes. Not least in how and where we work and how and where we enjoy our leisure activities.

I don't know about anyone else but I found the first weeks really tough but at the same time I felt something positive. I felt that just for a brief period we had a more caring, more compassionate society. Don't judge me too harshly but I found the very first 'Clap for Carers' quite moving. Everyone was largely stuck indoors those first few weeks and I felt in coming to our windows we were as much clapping ourselves and checking on each other as we were clapping the frontline care workers.

But as restrictions have loosened I think we have more and more moved towards thinking of ourselves primarily as individuals and not as a wider collective.

Yes, the virus has a greater direct impact on certain demographics and I totally get the frustrations of those who will likely not end up in a hospital bed or a morgue if they pick up the infection having restrictions placed on them that prevent them from living their lives to the full.

Is it beyond the human race though, even for a relatively brief interval, to act not with their own individual wants and needs front and centre but with those of the most vulnerable?

As I said at some point yesterday our individual actions may seem small and insignificant but if widely repeated they can have, both positively and negatively, collective impact.

Sorry of all the crap I've posted on here that's probably the most cringe worthy. Guess I woke up in a strange mood.

I genuinely don't think people are concerned about living their lives to the full, could be wrong

More their livelihoods being eliminated

[John MacLean]

I genuinely don't think people are concerned about living their lives to the full, could be wrong
More their livelihoods being eliminated

It's all linked together though. What do we work/study for if not to try and make the most of our lives?

[dirty dingus]

Think there might be some differing opinions at the top. Meanwhile Hancock is doing his usual Homer Simpson drumming monkey look.

[Todd_is_God]

33 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

As a matter of interest what number of deaths are you willing to deem acceptable to keep you daily routine as normal as possible. If that's the route you advocate you must have a number in mind.

Anything under 10% of the normal expected daily deaths.

What would you expext an "adult conversation" with regards to covid-19 looks like?

Edited September 19, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[mizfit]

Think there might be some differing opinions at the top. Meanwhile Hancock is doing his usual Homer Simpson drumming monkey look.

In a years time Hancock will be thrown under the bus by Boris’s successor.

[Dan Steele]

16 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

Some deaths are fine when the people dying were pretty much close to death from their other conditions anyway.

 

Now there's a statement. Any historical events spring to mind that had that rationale?