Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Markka]

Looks almost certain that the Christmas relaxation will now be scrapped across the board.

If this happens, I feel sorry for the minority of folk who are completely adhering to the "rules", as many will have planned for the occasion and would then face having to cancel their plans. All while a lot of people are going to have a "normal" Christmas regardless.

I will admit to some degree of hypocrisy here, as I'll be at my mum's (5 people, 3 households) on Christmas Day even if the rules change to prevent that.

[Billy Jean King]

^^^ blubbering mess
We are dealing with a virus outbreak that spreads through i) airborne transmission and ii) overwhelmingly impacts old people with existing co-morbidities champ. There's nothing even remotely random about concluding from these unassailable facts that the two most effective measures that you can take are:
- limiting/closing the biggest seasonal disease factory in the country (responsible for fully 0.4 of the R rate alone in the government scientists' own estimates) and
- punting vulnerable categories into shielding
That is simply a rational response based on calculations of genuine risk, rather than weepy claptrap about what's fair or not nor narrow political concerns about winning electrons. The alternative to this rational public health response is what we have right now: an utterly ridiculous set of whack a mole measures based on causing as equal inconvenience to the greatest number of people as possible, none of which can be considered to effectively control infection rates and are burning up the economy both right now and for a generation to come. 

And you called me a blundering mess.

Dearie me a rant and all because some old dear went for her shopping while you were in.

[mizfit]

Talks going on until tomorrow about Christmas relaxation. Seems the Welsh are insistent it continues whereas Sturgeon thinks it needs tightened.

If only we could have foreseen this being announced with a month until Christmas.

[Billy Jean King]

Which sadly renders you a blundering blubbering mess.  

Ah the perils of auto correct. Good that we have vigilance on here.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

37 minutes ago, Steven W said:

I agree, but only to an extent.

There is really zero prospect of any Central Belt LA reaching Tier 1 and for that reason the tier system wouldn't appear to be working.

The only thing that does work is a full lockdown, and if we were to go down that route, to prevent people travelling to Highlands and Islands it would need to be across the board.

A full March style lockdown is pretty unpalatable but at this point, and with furlough available it would, to my mind, do a whole lot more than the ineffective tier system.

I'm fucked if I'm forgoing creamy indoor pints just because the Sassenachs aren't able to practise basic hygiene.

We need a Teuchter militia manning the gates at Drumochter.

[Binos]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

800,000 jobs lost as we put the economy in the bin - meanwhile the supermarkets are packed with the Granny Dangers of the world who just can't go two minutes without ambling in to see if they can get some biscuits. Most couldn't stand up to a gale force wind never mind the 'rona which is overwhelmingly impacting their exact co-morbidity group, but there they are regardless.

The fact that measures were not implemented to punt vulnerable groups into enforced shielding from the autumn and instead let everyone take the same decisions because of fairness will be looked back on as a mind-boggling disaster.

That reminds me, I need some biscuits

[Jacksgranda]

46 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

48 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

Which sadly renders you a blundering blubbering mess.  

Ah the perils of auto correct. Good that we have vigilance on here.

Maybe we could do with vigilantes.

[madwullie]

Wife telling me tonight that there's a mad scramble in her hospital from people trying to get themselves / their (nhs employed) mates etc. booked in for vaccines when they don't actually work in red zones which is meant to be the criteria for qualifying to get one - meaning actual staff who work in these zones and are facing critical patients every day are unable to get booking slots / having to wait days to get vaccinated. 

She says it's being managed like a release of Glastonbury tickets. 

[madwullie]

18 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Maybe we could do with vigilantes.

Vaginas I thought it was autocorrected from 

[ICTChris]

If you expand the number of people shielding you also have a significant economic impact as those people and their households can't go to businesses that require footfall.  Depending how you define vulnerable you could have more than 10 million people isolating in the UK.  That's going to have a huge impact on the businesses that are already suffering.  In addition you have to question if its feasible to effectievly segregate such a large number of people from those who aren't vulnerable - despite the assurance by the Prime Minister that we'd have a protective ring around care homes they have seen a very large number of infections and deaths.

Also, a significant number of people in the non-vulnerable group will also choose to reduce social contact with the ensuing economic impact.  We saw this happen in February and March when numbers of people socialising fell before the lockdown being imposed.

 

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

If you expand the number of people shielding you also have a significant economic impact as those people and their households can't go to businesses that require footfall.  Depending how you define vulnerable you could have more than 10 million people isolating in the UK.  That's going to have a huge impact on the businesses that are already suffering. 

Given the choice for businesses that rely on footfall between losing 10-15% footfall and staying open v being allowed to open/forced to close again at the drop of a hat under existing policy, it's pretty obvious which one would do the least economic harm.

Quote

In addition you have to question if its feasible to effectievly segregate such a large number of people from those who aren't vulnerable - despite the assurance by the Prime Minister that we'd have a protective ring around care homes they have seen a very large number of infections and deaths.

You don't have to 'effectively segregate' them, you just drastically reduce the number of contacts that they have to decrease their overall risk of contracting the infection. Just as all the current measures are designed to do anyway, except that these do so in the most half-arsed and therefore least effective manner possible.

It's inexplicable that people throw this argument out that oh but you can't keep everyone 100% safe in shielding so what's the point, when the unshielded mess that we're actually going with right now has led to 64k deaths in addition to disproportionate economic and social harms across society as a whole with no actual definitive solution or end date.

Edited December 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[Honest_Man#1]

11 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Wife telling me tonight that there's a mad scramble in her hospital from people trying to get themselves / their (nhs employed) mates etc. booked in for vaccines when they don't actually work in red zones which is meant to be the criteria for qualifying to get one - meaning actual staff who work in these zones and are facing critical patients every day are unable to get booking slots / having to wait days to get vaccinated. 

She says it's being managed like a release of Glastonbury tickets. 

That’s correct for a couple of hospitals I know of. They just had a phone line and it was first come first serve, so a lot of the non-patient facing admin staff were the first ones to get vaccinated before nurses & doctors as they were able to sit by the phone and dial the minute the line opened.

Farcical.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

17 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Wife telling me tonight that there's a mad scramble in her hospital from people trying to get themselves / their (nhs employed) mates etc. booked in for vaccines when they don't actually work in red zones which is meant to be the criteria for qualifying to get one - meaning actual staff who work in these zones and are facing critical patients every day are unable to get booking slots / having to wait days to get vaccinated. 

She says it's being managed like a release of Glastonbury tickets. 

It’s pretty obvious that was going to happen tbh.

They couldn’t see a shite go by them. Hopefully they take a bad reaction ‘wi ma asma’.

[eez-eh]

I feel like the effect of Christmas on cases is getting overstated a bit.

Not so much that it won’t have an effect on transmission, but surely a lot of that will be “cancelled out” by the schools being off for 1.5-2 weeks?

They won’t change the rules anyway I don’t think, not at this stage, but they’ll probably try to cause as much confusion as possible as a way of deflecting blame from themselves - as they have done for several months. c***s.

[Distant Doonhamer]

Wife telling me tonight that there's a mad scramble in her hospital from people trying to get themselves / their (nhs employed) mates etc. booked in for vaccines when they don't actually work in red zones which is meant to be the criteria for qualifying to get one - meaning actual staff who work in these zones and are facing critical patients every day are unable to get booking slots / having to wait days to get vaccinated. 
She says it's being managed like a release of Glastonbury tickets. 

That’s correct for a couple of hospitals I know of. They just had a phone line and it was first come first serve, so a lot of the non-patient facing admin staff were the first ones to get vaccinated before nurses & doctors as they were able to sit by the phone and dial the minute the line opened.
Farcical.

Mate of mine who is an ICU consultant has appropriately had his first vaccination already. Apparently very well organised where he works. I guess in the same way that some places made a mess of the flu jab delivery there’ll be examples of good practice as well as places that are poorly organised. There’s just no excuse for it being some sort of disorganised mess. Really poor where that is happening.

[Fullerene]

5 hours ago, madwullie said:

She says it's being managed like a release of Glastonbury tickets. 

Can we expect to hear about vaccine touts?

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Why hasn’t Boris taken it yet?

 

[Marshmallo]

7 hours ago, eez-eh said:

I feel like the effect of Christmas on cases is getting overstated a bit.

Not so much that it won’t have an effect on transmission, but surely a lot of that will be “cancelled out” by the schools being off for 1.5-2 weeks?

They won’t change the rules anyway I don’t think, not at this stage, but they’ll probably try to cause as much confusion as possible as a way of deflecting blame from themselves - as they have done for several months. c***s.

I think the issue is instead of a kid passing it round a classroom or a guy giving it to someone on a building site, they're giving it to elderly relatives who they wouldn't be coming into contact with otherwise. 

[Dons_1988]

My mother keen to re-iterate last night that the news is scaremongering and she doesn't care if me or my siblings give her the virus. 

 

[Rizzo]

Properly jealous of all these teachers that can have their windows open and heating on. The heating in our classrooms is utter cack so even when it's on its still fucking freezing.