Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[The Stig]

3 minutes ago, Jedi said:

EIS disucssion thread on Twitter.

Sorry but you said the stats show so please show the stats and not a discussion for a union that clearly has a stake in this.  Once again please provide link to independent evidence to back up this claim ( I wil accept PHE England or Scotland) as I have not once saw any study that breaks down infections to occupation.

[Guest Jedi]

After literally trawling back through hundreds of both Twitter and Facebook posts, connected to the EIS it comes down to an infection rate of around 1 for the community in Scotland and 1.3 proportionately among teachers. Interesting that you choose to focus on one section of this, so assume that you have dismissed the other points as well.  Imagine a teacher's union having a stake in the health and wellbeing of pupils and staff.

Here is Wales (we know that the virus stops at school gates in Scotland), 

3.3% of teachers in Wales had covid last week. Much higher than the rate in the community. How can that stem from low transmission levels? There is not a Scottish version of covid that does not affect schools If it spreads in Welsh schools, it then spreads in Scottish schools

More recent data Dec 1st to Dec 9th 2127 out of 52688 Welsh teachers tested positive for covid Infection rate of 4.037%, or 4037 per 100000

 

 

Dr Zoë Hyde

 

@DrZoeHyde

· Dec 9

Also 1. Updated thread on children & #COVID19, summarising recent research. Summary: further evidence children and adults are equally susceptible, and similarly likely to transmit. Schools have been a driver of the second wave in Europe, Canada, and elsewhere. #edutwitter #auspol

Edited December 12, 2020 by Jedi

[Guest Jedi]

DiscoGaza 

 

@DiscoGaza

· Dec 10

Replying to @EISUnion

The infection rate in Scotland is 101 per 100k. The highest area is Clacks at 199, mainly due to mass testing. The rate in Wales is 380 per 100k with the highest area at 697 per 100k. Massively different infection rates so different strategies required.

[The Stig]

So the sensationalism of the 3 times higher rate for teachers us complete nonsense.  Every workplace is susceptible to virus transmission and Scotgov has published a paper saying that the transmission rates in schools is at an acceptable level.  The rate of transmission in Scotland is stable at the moment whereas in Wales is is significantly higher and rising in general and that is why there schools are closing.  There is no doubt that some schools have to go to remote learning due to teacher absence (positive or isolating) however this should not be a blanket response as children need education as thier future should not be screwed because of this pandemic.  They have already missed 6 months of learning as the work from home stuff was a joke in the early stages, so let them remain in class while they can.

[The Stig]

9 minutes ago, Jedi said:

DiscoGaza 

 

@DiscoGaza

· Dec 10

Replying to @EISUnion

The infection rate in Scotland is 101 per 100k. The highest area is Clacks at 199, mainly due to mass testing. The rate in Wales is 380 per 100k with the highest area at 697 per 100k. Massively different infection rates so different strategies required.

Thanks you have proved that Wales are riddled with the virus and therefore should be closing everything.  Scotland is nowhere near that so we shouldn't jump the gun and ruin our children's futures. 

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Andrew Driver said:

As part of the dea with the UK Gov,  J & J  agreed the vaccine should be known as the Johnson and Boris Johnson's Vaccine.  

I’m not an anti-vaxer but....

 

[strichener]

33 minutes ago, The Stig said:

Thanks you have proved that Wales are riddled with the virus and therefore should be closing everything.  Scotland is nowhere near that so we shouldn't jump the gun and ruin our children's futures. 

After accusing others of sensationalism, this is the most sensational of all the claims.  Please provide the evidence that shows shutting schools for a period during a pandemic ruins their future.

[The Stig]

30 minutes ago, strichener said:

After accusing others of sensationalism, this is the most sensational of all the claims.  Please provide the evidence that shows shutting schools for a period during a pandemic ruins their future.

I am going from a personal perspective where my youngest has been diagnosed with dyslexia, It only now he is back and pre pandemic reading levels with a lot of support from his teacher who is fantastic with him and is now further behind his class than he was. 

Are you saying that children not being educated fully will have no effect on there futures?  or that missing half a year of the curriculum is fine and not have the full understanding of their subjects will not be a disadvantage?

There is already going to be  a year group that will be leaving school without sitting a formal examination which is a life skill that needs to be learned.  

Edit to add - we will not see if this has affected the education properly until the first set of examinations to see the increase / decrease in attainment levels 

Edited December 12, 2020 by The Stig

[Honest_Man#1]

8 minutes ago, The Stig said:

I am going from a personal perspective where my youngest has been diagnosed with dyslexia, It only now he is back and pre pandemic reading levels with a lot of support from his teacher who is fantastic with him and is now further behind his class than he was. 

Are you saying that children not being educated fully will have no effect on there futures?  or that missing half a year of the curriculum is fine and not have the full understanding of their subjects will not be a disadvantage?

There is already going to be  a year group that will be leaving school without sitting a formal examination which is a life skill that needs to be learned.

As GD says, whilst it obviously isn’t ideal, it certainly would not “ruin their futures” to receive teaching remotely for a short period rather than face to face. 

It’s nonsense sensationalism.

[strichener]

7 minutes ago, The Stig said:

I am going from a personal perspective where my youngest has been diagnosed with dyslexia, It only now he is back and pre pandemic reading levels with a lot of support from his teacher who is fantastic with him and is now further behind his class than he was. 

Are you saying that children not being educated fully will have no effect on there futures?  or that missing half a year of the curriculum is fine and not have the full understanding of their subjects will not be a disadvantage?

There is already going to be  a year group that will be leaving school without sitting a formal examination which is a life skill that needs to be learned.

I don't think children are fully educated at school in the first place.  Since there are only 190 days a year in a class it provides plenty of opportunity for the education authorities to replace the missed time.

As for sitting formal examinations being a "life skill", really?

[The Stig]

5 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

As GD says, whilst it obviously isn’t ideal, it certainly would not “ruin their futures” to receive teaching remotely for a short period rather than face to face. 

It’s nonsense sensationalism.

Ok I get your point about sensationalism but for remote teaching how do you ensure that ever child has the access to this the remote learning.  In my own case my two are fine as the have phones, tablets with access to the internet but this is not the case for all.  How would make sure everyone has access and noone will be missed?

[David W]

As a teacher, I am firmly in the camp that blended learning is a lot of rubbish and I'm saying that as someone whose pupils engaged well with it pre-summer. 

Given that they've binned exams though, I see no reason for the pupils not to be kept out of school for extra time pre/after Christmas, then at Feb weekend. Teachers could easily use the time for the extra stuff we're having to do.

[The Stig]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

I don't think children are fully educated at school in the first place.  Since there are only 190 days a year in a class it provides plenty of opportunity for the education authorities to replace the missed time.

As for sitting formal examinations being a "life skill", really?

I believe it is a life skill you don't have agree but it is my opinion

As for your second point I don't believe there is six months of slack in the secondary school curriculum to deliver it fully.  However I am not a teacher so would like to hear their opinion. 

 

[renton]

Grim numbers today. Suggests cases have at least plateaued in the last few days. Imagine increased retail activity is at least partly the cause. Can't think that is going to get any better in the next week or two.

If we can't keep cases down over the Christmas period, and with the one sided Christmas truce coming up, we are looking at needing a fairly hefty lockdown in early January.

[strichener]

10 minutes ago, The Stig said:

I believe it is a life skill you don't have agree but it is my opinion

As for your second point I don't believe there is six months of slack in the secondary school curriculum to deliver it fully.  However I am not a teacher so would like to hear their opinion. 

 

There are already 5 weeks of absences in the educational calendar between now and mid-April in our CSN.

[Manifesto]

General thoughts on the scholastic shitshow.

 

There seems to be a desire to get school kids educated as much as possible this school Year.

Why?

The Primary kids can take the hit and not make a difference in 6/7/8 years time.

 

The Secondary ones are desperate to get qualifications to see them into University. Which are going to be vastly oversubscribed in 2021 anyways, no matter if the Rona is ova, and if it isn't they'd be mad to go there.

 

** Added to the very large chance there is not going to be a welter of Graduate jobs if they do indeed graduate.

 

''Ruining their lives'' is for FB mentalists.

[The Stig]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

There are already 5 weeks of absences in the educational calendar between now and mid-April in our CSN.

Those 5 weeks are always there though and have been factored in to the curriculum

Do you want the teachers to work through all the holidays  to catch up as I think they deserve it and don't begrudge them time off?

[Guest Jedi]

I think we need to finally nail the Us For Them trope which suggests that 'no' education took place for 6 months in Scotland.

Firstly, schools closed mid-March, with online learning available immediately. From mid-March to the end of June is 3 months. School holidays (which were shortened by a week) then kicked in, with pupils returning full-time in early August. So, the online learning section was 3 months, not 6.

During that 3 months, teachers were working harder than ever, providing daily content, including online videos and virtual lessons. They were marking work online at all hours of the day, and then preparing estimates for final exam grades.

I take the point that not all children have access to technology, although the vast majority do. The SG said that they would provide resources to ensure that those without technology would get it....but they didn't.

I don't know a single teacher who wants schools to be closed, but many who from a range of surveys don't feel safe, working in small rooms, with little ventilation and no distancing in place.

What was asked for was 2 days....2 days-of online learning (Dec 21st and 22nd), in order to ensure greater safety, and management not having to track and trace pupils (again) during Christmas.

I don't think that 2 days of online learning (following an initial 3 months of it) would endanger the future of pupils, but we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Jedi

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, The Stig said:

Those 5 weeks are always there though and have been factored in to the curriculum

Do you want the teachers to work through all the holidays  to catch up as I think they deserve it and don't begrudge them time off?

I think the next couple of academic years should be restructured to allow schools to close until the end of February.

[Bairnardo]

Why are people acting like the only cost of blended learning or closing schools is educational? I'd be tempted to say the provision of education might even be among the smaller of the governments concerns re either of these options.

The govt are looking at the cost of taking them out school versus the benefits of doing so, as well as the costs of keeping them in, and the benefits of doing so.

The idea that a lobby of parents are so electorally powerful that the government are not only willing to torpedo actual public health, but also to willingly destroy other massive industries with all their stakeholders/employees etc to keep them onside is a cringeworthy take.

Said it before in discussion with honest man, you might not think the balance is right, but that is subjective to every one of us, and the declining case loads in Scotland and R being modelled between 0.6 and 0.9 (so pandemic shrinking even in the worst case) pretty much drives a coach and horses through the idea that you cant control this disease with schools operating fully.