Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[effeffsee_the2nd]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Whilst this is maybe more aggressive than I'd put it but I have sympathy with this view.

Wearing a mask is shite but I'm perfectly happy to do it out of consideration for people in proximity but I really see no need to go through the discomfort on a walk where there's no one around or even worse whilst out running by myself.

Exactly, i'm not aiming this anger at any posters , there are precious few pleasures at this most miserable time, why do they NEED to f**k up one of the few that's still allowed?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Probably not risking their lives more than they have by smoking for 50 plus years to be fair. 

But that's their decision, this isn't. Its incredibly juvenile to deflect from the point as you don't have anything substantive to add to it but just want to object anyway. I suggest growing up.

[101]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Precisely. What's been mandated by Scotgov is that employers make the workplace covid secure, pretty sure they are required to demonstrate this to the regulator and most employers are being pushed to make their covid RA public. Deliberately open ended though as all employers and work settings are different. The havent been prescriptive about very much throughout this. If an employee feels that the measures taken by the employer are inadequate, then they should absolutely report the employer and action would be taken by the HSE.

Then theres also raising mask wearing as a safety suggestion... Or just choosing to wear a mask.

Exactly the Govt couldn't visit every work place and set out the exact measures because some places will have 3 people in a 300m2 shed.

 

1 minute ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

But they can't control if people who go in have Covid or not can they?  So they're absolutely identical to shops. 700 people work there, most shops you go in there might be 7.  I assume shops are also confident 2m can be maintained so why do you need masks then? 

Its not his workplace's interpretation, they have checked and they comply with the regulations fully, its the regulations that are wrong. You can't speak to the union if there's nothing to speak to the union about, they are meeting all criteria set by Scotgov, but those criteria do not include the wearing of masks, so they're not wearing them.  

 It's up to the employer to decide they could temperature check everyone staggered the shifts all the stuff supermarkets can't for members of the public. 

They will comply if 2m distancing is maintained at all times and masks are worn in all common areas, canteens, corridors, entrances, changing rooms etc etc.

If you feel unsafe at work then you can 100% speak to the union regardless if you feel it's breaking legislation or not.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

So, you don’t care your dad protecting other people? Just about him?

Again, juvenile shite. I want everyone wearing them. If you don't have anything to contribute except contrarian pish maybe best be a bit more circumspect.

[hk blues]

8 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I didn't ask for that, indoors only.  But everywhere indoors, how could a factory be any different to a shop?  

Don't ask me mate...

[Rugster]

Just now, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

But that's their decision, this isn't. Its incredibly juvenile to deflect from the point as you don't have anything substantive to add to it but just want to object anyway. I suggest growing up.

I just found it strange you were using the smoking almost like a badge of honour as a moan as to part of the reason why they had only been classed as moderate risk. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

Exactly the Govt couldn't visit every work place and set out the exact measures because some places will have 3 people in a 300m2 shed.

 

 It's up to the employer to decide they could temperature check everyone staggered the shifts all the stuff supermarkets can't for members of the public. 

They will comply if 2m distancing is maintained at all times and masks are worn in all common areas, canteens, corridors, entrances, changing rooms etc etc.

If you feel unsafe at work then you can 100% speak to the union regardless if you feel it's breaking legislation or not.

They could also mandate masks like other countries have done, but they refuse to do so.

They do, the employer isn't a fucking hospital, its not their area of expertise to decipher who is Covid positive and who isn't. 

The union can't do anything about it if its not in breach of legislation. They are obviously unsafe, its not about ;feels; its a black and white situation, they are clearly at risk every time they go to work.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Also Christmas shopping = ok, schools when cases were shooting up = ok, Christmass dinner = ok

Going for a walk by yourself without a mask = woah youv got blood on your hands

[Thereisalight..]

10 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I think it’s safe to say excess deaths in the last year can only really be explained by Covid as the singular major factor.  I don’t think until all the data is collected fully that it can be split into different categories (I.e respiratory disease death, possibly Covid,   Anything caused by delayed treatment or increase in other factors (mental heath).    
 

The fact that excess deaths is similar to the Covid mentioned in death certificates suggests that any increase in deaths from other factors are balanced by any deaths with Covid mentioned that may have occurred anyway.

I don’t think you can say “excess deaths in the last year”. Feb my Dad passed away due to pneumonia. Saying excess deaths since mid to late March would be more accurate 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, Rugster said:

I just found it strange you were using the smoking almost like a badge of honour as a moan as to part of the reason why they had only been classed as moderate risk. 

Maybe you have a little trouble comprehending what you read and assign judgements to it with no basis in reality. I wasn't saying I think they should be high risk, I was bemoaning the fact they're higher risk than your average person.  

Realistically mate you're a fanny, and you're just objecting to what I say cause I say it.  I never personalise anything on here but I get it a lot from fandans like you. 

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

And your other wee account dotting. So sweet

12 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Oh virginton. Did you get your wrong account?

[Rugster]

Just now, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Maybe you have a little trouble comprehending what you read and assign judgements to it with no basis in reality. I wasn't saying I think they should be high risk, I was bemoaning the fact they're higher risk than your average person.  

Realistically mate you're a fanny, and you're just objecting to what I say cause I say it.  I never personalise anything on here but I get it a lot from fandans like you. 

What a load of pish. Go and take a right good f**k to yourself. 

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Actually, studies show the safe distances are this

Sitting down 1.5 m

Standing up 2m

Walking 4m

Jogging 10m

They also think if two people are standing talking and one of them is positive a cloud lingers up to ten minutes after they are gone.  They have found cases in factories in Germany that were poorly ventilated, people working hard, and shouting, and people were infected up to 12m away.  Also found in S Korea people got infected at churches by sitting in the same seat an infected person sat in the day before.

So realistically masks should be mandatory everywhere in public all the time even outside. But bellends like the guy above won't accept it.

I'm not doubting your info there, but you can find levels of risk in just about anything going down that route. I'm not sure why infections in churches are relevant to him wearing a mask outdoors with no one around him either.

I'm sure everyone wearing masks outside would provide a small additional layer of safety but I'd argue that closing more workplaces and individuals taking more personal responsibility would be far, far more effective.

[101]

4 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They could also mandate masks like other countries have done, but they refuse to do so.

They do, the employer isn't a fucking hospital, its not their area of expertise to decipher who is Covid positive and who isn't. 

The union can't do anything about it if its not in breach of legislation. They are obviously unsafe, its not about ;feels; its a black and white situation, they are clearly at risk every time they go to work.

They clearly think they have made it mandatory in every reasonable scenario as far as they feel it's proportional.

Their employer might not be a hospital but they can check a temperature. Also I think it would be odd to wear a mask into the factory floor and then take it off and put it back on when you go to the toilet etc etc.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

Well he's rebranded the Brexit Party into the Reform party at at 11 they will be announcing what they will be doing in Scotland for the coming election. But I have to agree the only caveat I would add is who will get less support "Reform UK" or the "Unity Alliance". I think Reform are an anti lockdown party which is interesting.

They'll surely split each others vote. Could be a disaster, with both parties only getting 500 odd votes each instead of 1000.

[hk blues]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Whilst this is maybe more aggressive than I'd put it but I have sympathy with this view.

Wearing a mask is shite but I'm perfectly happy to do it out of consideration for people in proximity but I really see no need to go through the discomfort on a walk where there's no one around or even worse whilst out running by myself.

In my place we have to wear both a mask and a visor - it's shite but the rules are there to protect us.  Sure, we can tell them to F***K off but then expect to be paying fines on a daily basis and don't expect to be going to a shop or such anytime soon as you won't get in.  Just yesterday I was on a local jeepney and one of the passengers wasn't wearing his mask - the driver on the jeepney next to ours at the traffic lights told him to put it on.  Here, it's even required in cars when there are no passengers. When we're walking within our community very few people wear them (including myself) which shows people only comply because they have no choice, not because they think it's safer.    

[coprolite]

43 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They're mandatory inside shops, factories are no different except you spend ten times as long there with ten times as many people. Masks are not mandatory on factory floors, where my dad has to spend 80% of his time to do his job.

They've contacted HSE and been told they are not in breach of regulations. Well the regulations are clearly wrong then aren't they, and that's NS's responsibility.

If your Dad feels unsafe then he shouldn't go in. It's a nonsense to suggest that none of his colleagues should earn a wage because one guy smoked since he was 14.

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Precisely. What's been mandated by Scotgov is that employers make the workplace covid secure, pretty sure they are required to demonstrate this to the regulator and most employers are being pushed to make their covid RA public. Deliberately open ended though as all employers and work settings are different. The havent been prescriptive about very much throughout this. If an employee feels that the measures taken by the employer are inadequate, then they should absolutely report the employer and action would be taken by the HSE.

Then theres also raising mask wearing as a safety suggestion... Or just choosing to wear a mask.

 

7 minutes ago, 101 said:

Exactly the Govt couldn't visit every work place and set out the exact measures because some places will have 3 people in a 300m2 shed.

 

 It's up to the employer to decide they could temperature check everyone staggered the shifts all the stuff supermarkets can't for members of the public. 

They will comply if 2m distancing is maintained at all times and masks are worn in all common areas, canteens, corridors, entrances, changing rooms etc etc.

If you feel unsafe at work then you can 100% speak to the union regardless if you feel it's breaking legislation or not.

A 'leave it to the employer to work it out' strategy that helps explain why we are where we are now.

The claim that the onus should be on the employee to contact union officials/philpy them to HSE is utterly ridiculous. This is a pandemic impacting every part of life, it is not a top shelf stacked too heavily. Unions have insufficient power to make changes (even the teachers failed to secure a credible working environment) and the HSE is not equipped to swoop on every workplace in the middle of a pandemic.

The SG should absolutely be prescriptive about what is required in an indoor (and outdoor) workspace respectively. They have been prescriptive about how many people you can mix with from another household for months so what makes the far more risky workplace environment magically exempt?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

They clearly think they have made it mandatory in every reasonable scenario as far as they feel it's proportional.

Their employer might not be a hospital but they can check a temperature. Also I think it would be odd to wear a mask into the factory floor and then take it off and put it back on when you go to the toilet etc etc.

No they don't, how hard would it be to say masks are mandatory inside all public buildings all the time? That's what other countries have done. What is 'proportional' when you're talking about giving people  a basic level of protection at their workplace?  Its not a draconian measure to say wear a mask.

Again, who cares what you think would be odd, human beings are odd and there's hundreds of them in there. Masks are not mandatory so they take them off any opportunity they get. If they were mandatory they wouldn't do that.  NS can make it so, but has not.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I'm not doubting your info there, but you can find levels of risk in just about anything going down that route. I'm not sure why infections in churches are relevant to him wearing a mask outdoors with no one around him either.

I'm sure everyone wearing masks outside would provide a small additional layer of safety but I'd argue that closing more workplaces and individuals taking more personal responsibility would be far, far more effective.

Absolutely, people are calling this a lockdown when its nothing of the sort. Hundreds of thousands of people are going to work all over Scotland, that's not a lockdown.

You can find levels of risk in everything, and we are in a pandemic, so as far as possible our government should be trying to protect us from this. In Spain, since March, as soon as you walk out your front door you have to wear a mask, everywhere, all the time, no matter what. The police will arrest you if you don't. There's no reason we couldn't do the same.