Big Fifer Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Clown Job said: I think the key point here is that we've got to take decisions based on making sure such judgments are effective. "For example we have a multiple range of options about outside venues, let's for example, take the model Mr Mason has put to me of a variation reflecting stadium size and stadium facility. "I think we lose clarity of messaging, which is a blunt one. "I make no apology for being so blunt, we need to quite simply reduce the degree to which people are interacting. "A total of 500 as a maximum for outdoorevents gives a very clear signal to people in the country that we have to reduce that interaction. "So for example a crowd of 500 at a Rangers game compared to a crowd of 50,000 which would normally be of that order makes a very, very clear significant point that we have to reduce dramatically the level of socialinteraction. For reference, it's actually John Mason that is/was discussing with me in that email conversation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Binos said: Did the flu ever result in the developed world requiring to lock its population down and furlough huge sections of its economy Yes. Social distancing, closing of schools amongst other things were responses to the spanish flu pandemic. Some islands also used measures such as quarantines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Clown Job said: I think the key point here is that we've got to take decisions based on making sure such judgments are effective. "For example we have a multiple range of options about outside venues, let's for example, take the model Mr Mason has put to me of a variation reflecting stadium size and stadium facility. "I think we lose clarity of messaging, which is a blunt one. "I make no apology for being so blunt, we need to quite simply reduce the degree to which people are interacting. "A total of 500 as a maximum for outdoorevents gives a very clear signal to people in the country that we have to reduce that interaction. "So for example a crowd of 500 at a Rangers game compared to a crowd of 50,000 which would normally be of that order makes a very, very clear significant point that we have to reduce dramatically the level of socialinteraction. Honestly as clear as mud. First it was the emergency services don't have the capacity, fair enough there is some logic to that although let's talk about increasing funding and building resilience and reducing the need to isolate. Then it was public transport which seemed to really only be based on old firm fans traveling round the country on busses as I would imagine most fans live in the locality to their ground and drive or walk or are on public transport for short periods of time, also public transport on the 26th December, good luck with that. Now its to show folk how much they should scale back their social contact. You advised three households was the right level, now butt out folks lives and let them decide if they want to take that advice or have a great time after 2 shit filled years with their nearest and dearest. Comms fucking disaster. Edited December 23, 2021 by 101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Binos said: Did the mandate to not leave your council area make any difference to the number of people leaving their council area I think so Yes, because it was difficult to fake. It's easy to fake vaccine certs, many people have done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Insider gossip on why England followed a different strategy from the other 3 nations. Looks like Sunak is calling the shots now and Whitty and Vallance are being ignored. https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/cabernet-blank-whine-and-cheese-king-rishi/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeJay Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Binos said: Did the flu ever result in the developed world requiring to lock its population down and furlough huge sections of its economy Judging by the huge numbers of flu deaths every year for decades do you not think that should've happened? Based on the precedent that's been set to "keep us all safe" are you not pissed off at the authorities for playing fast and loose with your health pre-2020? If not, your anger is with the tyrannical governments, not the unvaxxed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyBear Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, Binos said: And when next winters variant pops up we will again be locked down due to the folk not getting vaccinated Must be made legal requirement Why ? What difference does it make to you if you are vaccinated if others are not ? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Ah yes 500 Ibrox sending a very clear signal. Meanwhile Morton have announced they'll be cramming their 500 into the wee main stand alone. So everyone into 2 turnstiles and hospitality still sold out anyway so any notion of distancing and limiting social interaction just rubbished. Because this is somehow safer than the usual 1500 spread across the rest of the ground. Giving every venue the same treatment is so hilariously lop sided and ill thought out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Binos said: My point, it should be made a legal requirement with fiscal penalty As was walking around outwith your local council area earlier in the year As was leaving your house for more than 1 hour a day at the beginning of the pandemic The correct answer here is ‘we shouldn’t be fining people for going for a walk’ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyBear Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, Binos said: The vast majority of people in hospital are unvaccinated apparently Do you have any credible evidence to back this up ? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 FM says changes will be made if and when the public health advice states the benefits outweigh the risks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Only a matter of time... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, Michael W said: ...I can also accept South Africa is not a good comparator for the UK. They have a lot of absolute poverty in the country (3rd world poverty, not developed world poverty) and a large number of the population (c17%) is immunocompromised as a result of HIV/AIDS. I am not sure how access to medical care is, but I would imagine it's not quite on par with European systems. Additionally, around 25% of their population is fully vaccinated, substantially lower than the UK.... The problem with that rationale is that it's a bad comparator in the wrong direction if you want to be able justify the extra restrictions. As far as I can see all the things you highlight should have led to a significantly worse outcome for South Africa than would be the case in a UK context, but there has barely even be a blip in excess deaths terms in the real world data for the Gauteng metro areas that peaked first that could be attributed to the impact of the very steep omicron infection wave that had been experienced. There are valid statistical reasons why South African health professionals have been telling anyone who would listen that this is a mild variant and no obvious rational reason why they for the most part haven't been taken seriously elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeJay Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said: Do you have any credible evidence to back this up ? I think if you aren't triple-vaxxed, you are classed as unvaccinated. That's maybe where he's coming from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Binos said: There would be no need for a pingdemic if we understood infection did not result in hospitalisation Never, then? The other 4 coronaviruses in circulation still kill people every year. The problem is people are still stuck in March 2020 / January 2021 mode when it comes to their views on what might happen if they get covid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 minute ago, FuzzyBear said: Do you have any credible evidence to back this up ? I’m not sure if that’s accurate but there are various reports in England that around 80% of people in ICU are unvaccinated. If you’re looking for ‘credible evidence’ for this do a wee Google search. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lyle Lanley said: FM says changes will be made if and when the public health advice states the benefits outweigh the risks. What is the context for this statement, please? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I don’t agree with mandatory vaccinations. However if it’s getting to a stage where the people who choose to remain unvaccinated are leading to rising hospitalisation rates, pressure on the NHS, and the rest of us being locked down - then the unvaccinated should be denied treatment IMO. Unvaccinated folk who become ill with covid would have to seek private health care. I imagine there will be some people out there who genuinely cannot receive the vaccine under medical grounds and they would of course be exempt. That to me seems reasonable? Edit: I guess this could lead to the government moving the goalposts on what “vaccinated” actually means which would be a joke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said: Do you have any credible evidence to back this up ? Quote An analysis of UK data from the National Immunisation Management Service (NIMS) and the Coronavirus Clinical Information Network (CO-CIN),1 endorsed by the UK Scientific and Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE),2 shows that of 40 000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33 496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second. https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyBear Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Just now, welshbairn said: https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306 That's dated 3 months ago. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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