Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Dying at home without having been allowed to have any direct contact with your family for four months prior surely doesn't really appeal either?

You haven't met my family, this lockdown has been a release.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

11 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Finally some sense.
Given the NHS is now at absolutely no risk of being overrun, why are we continuing to disproportionately restrict people to protect the very people that you clearly understand are likely to die in the short term anyway?

That's not really what I was getting at. I just dont tgink theres any value or capital in the stat that people died under shielding. Of course they did. It's not relevant though.

I think it is relevant tbh. The whole premise of the whole thing these days is that we can prevent these people dying.

What this highlights is that, despite our best efforts and intentions, we can't.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

You haven't met my family, this lockdown has been a release.

[welshbairn]

26 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

5,172 people who were advised to shield have died.

There are 180.000 on the shielded list in Scotland, which doesn't include the healthy elderly, so people with severe underlying conditions that makes them particularly vulnerable to Covid. I would say that if only 5172 have died and not necessarily related to Covid that it indicates that shielding has been very successful. 

 

[Bairnardo]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think it is relevant tbh. The whole premise of the whole thing these days is that we can prevent these people dying.

What this highlights is that, despite our best efforts and intentions, we can't.

But in any circumstance, someone dying in their sleep or of a heart attack at homeisnt taking up an ICU bed or a ventilator for days or week before checking out

 

[MuckleMoo]

The latter.
It shouldn't be a surprise that targetted testing is producing more positive results either.

It's actually quite impressive these cases have been identified in only a day or two. Shows the track and trace is working.

[madwullie]

56 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Dying at home without having been allowed to have any direct contact with your family for four months prior surely doesn't really appeal either?

I was shielding. I had direct contact with my family because I had to look after my dad and I live with 3 other people. You weren't not "allowed" to see people. It's a completely false idea that 5k people gasped their last gasp, lonely and isolated, without contact for months on end. The kind of thing the #kbf people would leap on as if it means something, when in isolation it means nothing more than 5k people whose time was up's time was up, and it happened to be at the height of the pandemic. 

Id be interested to see how many people shielding actually did it to the letter (inc isolating in a room in the house, eating all meals separate etc - not only because they decided the risk was worth it, but because their circumstances just didn't allow it to work like that) and how many lived alone and saw noone at all. Given my experience and those I know in my shoes, not very many imo

Edited August 3, 2020 by madwullie

[DeeTillEhDeh]

For half a day? Again its another day I need to potentially take off work. 
My work is fairly flexible so I'm usually fine but I know many are fucked as the amount of days they need to take extra off because of the amount of days the kids are not at school.
Not sure where i stand regarding kids going back. I'm guessing will/ or best be a system regarding parents in school ground picking up their children 
 

These dates are in the calendar almost 3 years ahead. DCC has them up to the end of session 2023/23.

Is that not enough notice for an employer?

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

I was shielding. I had direct contact with my family because I had to look after my dad and I live with 3 other people. You weren't not "allowed" to see people. It's a completely false idea that 5k people gasped their last gasp, lonely and isolated, without contact for months on end. The kind of thing the #kbf people would leap on as if it means something, when in isolation it means nothing more than 5k people whose time was up's time was up, and it happened to be at the height of the pandemic. 

Id be interested to see how many people shielding actually did it to the letter (inc isolating in a room in the house, eating all meals separate etc - not only because they decided the risk was worth it, but because their circumstances just didn't allow it to work like that) and how many lived alone and saw noone at all. Given my experience and those I know in my shoes, not very many imo

For 2,491 people it means nothing more than their time was up yet we moved heaven and earth to try and prevent it, and, to an extent, continue to do so.

Drastic measures to protect the NHS was fine.

But we are in a very grey area at the moment in appearing to be deciding which group of people's "time being up" is acceptable both morally and politicaly, and who's is not, despite the demographic of a very large proportion of both of those groups overlapping.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[tamthebam]

8 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Out of interest VT, what did you teach, and why did you stop?

Defence against the Dark Arts...

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

In yet another entirely predictable result of government spin and misdirection, Mrs JJJJS tells me that most people at her restaurant tonight were kicking off because they weren't getting 50% off their entire bill.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[Todd_is_God]

22 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

In yet another entirely predictable result of government spin and misdirection, Mrs JJJJS tells me that most people at her restaurant tonight were kicking off because they weren't getting 50% off their entire bill.

I don't think you can blame the government for people not taking the time to read things properly.

Anyone who thought the Government would be stumping up 50% of absolutely every meal whether it be a Big Mac meal with a coke, or a Wagyu Rib Eye with a bottle of Dom Perignon needs to take a reality check.

The £10pp limit & inclusion of non-alcoholic drinks only isn't even hidden in small print.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[NotThePars]

it was class that the rumours were stuff around being given 500 quid only for it to emerge that it was a tenner aff a meal. Understandable folk bought into it given the Tories previous for testing policy announcements via leaks to the press.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

16 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I don't think you can blame the government for people not taking the time to read things properly.

Anyone who thought the Government would be stumping up 50% of absolutely every meal whether it be a Big Mac meal with a coke, or a Wagyu Rib Eye with a bottle of Dom Perignon needs to take a reality check.

This is the Government that got elected with 3 or 4 word slogans. They know exactly that 'half price meals' is completely different to '£10 off'. Then later they can say stuff like:

Quote

I don't think you can blame the government for people not taking the time to read things properly.

, full in the fucking knowledge that the people won't read things properly.

The "half price meals" slogan was purely to make the Chancellor look like Jesus getting the takeaway order in at Bethsaida, and I bet there are poor b*****ds working up and down the country having to deal with arseholes being arseholes on the back of it.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[superbigal]

Went to Kingsway Farm (Mainly for the cakes). They have no restrictions and no limits (Apart from Alcohol) on the deal. So a genuine 50% of what you spend. Pre ordered and paid on the App but still then able to take all the bakery stuff home. Decent covid set up as well to be fair.

So bill £70 (All steaks)and paid £35. They get the full £30 from govt so in effect £65.

A decent business model I suggest boosting income. r.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[madwullie]

8 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

For 2,491 people it means nothing more than their time was up yet we moved heaven and earth to try and prevent it, and, to an extent, continue to do so.

Drastic measures to protect the NHS was fine.

But we are in a very grey area at the moment in appearing to be deciding which group of people's "time being up" is acceptable both morally and politicaly, and who's is not, despite the demographic of a very large proportion of both of those groups overlapping.

When I said their time was up, I meant they didn't die before they had to. Those who died from covid died before their time. And more than 2.5k died from the virus, unless you believe we should have always had Scotland only measures, which as you know is impossible, and that our actions should be in isolation and ignore what the virus was (and still is) doing elsewhere on the planet. I think a narrow focus like that would be dangerous and irresponsible. 

I can see why you would jump on this stat as some kind of justification of your (nebulous) position, but without any context at all its just a daily mail headline figure that tries to equate these deaths to the lockdown tbh

Edited August 4, 2020 by madwullie

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, madwullie said:

When I said their time was up, I meant they didn't die before they had to. Those who died from covid died before their time. And more than 2.5k died from the virus, unless you believe we should have always had Scotland only measures, which as you know is impossible, and that our actions should be in isolation and ignore what the virus was (and still is) doing elsewhere on the planet. I think a narrow focus like that would be dangerous and irresponsible. 

I can see why you would jump on this stat as some kind of justification of your (nebulous) position, but without any context at all its just a daily mail headline figure tbh

They might have done, depending on whether or not they had access to healthcare that might have prolonged their life.

Your apparant position of "it's doesn't really matter if people on the shielding list die, so long as we really try to ensure those not on the shielding list don't" is a bit strange.

People die every day "before they had to" the only difference is we don't take drastic measures to try to prevent them.

On top of that, with the average age of Covid-19 victims in Scotland being above the average life expectancy, the "dying before their time" argument applies to very few people anyway.

[VladimirMooc]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

They might have done, depending on whether or not they had access to healthcare that might have prolonged their life.

Your apparant position of "it's doesn't really matter if people on the shielding list die, so long as we really try to ensure those not on the shielding list don't" is a bit strange.

People die every day "before they had to" the only difference is we don't take drastic measures to try to prevent them.

On top of that, with the average age of Covid-19 victims in Scotland being above the average life expectancy, the "dying before their time" argument applies to very few people anyway.

Essentially what you’re arguing is that the lives of the people who died matter less, and are more expendable because we’re all going to die anyway? And that their deaths matter less than individual freedoms like going to the pub. 

Just be up front about that and say it rather than dress it up with the absolute word salads and pseudo-scientific pish that you populate this thread with. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by VladimirMooc

[Todd_is_God]

28 minutes ago, VladimirMooc said:

Essentially what you’re arguing is that the lives of the people who died matter less, and are more expendable because we’re all going to die anyway? And that their deaths matter less than individual freedoms like going to the pub. 

Just be up front about that and say it rather than dress it up with the absolute word salads and pseudo-scientific pish that you populate this thread with. 

No I'm saying it made little sense to use the nuclear option to prevent the most vulnerable people dying, when it's clear those people have continued to die anyway, potentially having spent less time with their family as a result.

Let's assume for a second that, rather than of any other cause, all 5,000 of those shielding people instead died of Covid-19

Does that really make a difference? Is that suddenly a scandal?

The narrative is that the lockdown and shielding saved lives, meaning that the job losses and recession were worth it. What has really happened is the people most likely to die have continued dying of something else instead, but because we only focus on and announce deaths from Covid-19 each day then it's being viewed as effective.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[vikingTON]

21 hours ago, virginton said:

Teachers are employed by the state to provide a certain amount of teaching time to pupils over the period of the year to help them successfully reach their learning outcomes/qualifications. Given the unprecedented circumstances, that means having six days a week and fewer breaks in 2021 to make up for the hours that were not spent teaching and preparing from the staff, or learning from the perspective of the students. There really is no getting around that point, other than bleating to the SQA to make the exams easier and therefore about as useful to the current cohort of 15-18 year olds as a bust bookies slip. 

On that note, I see that the teaching profession and the SQA have concluded a highly rigorous assessment cycle for 19/20 that saw pass rates jump by an astonishing 3-5% across the board in a single year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53636296

Clearly we have a golden intellectual cohort on our hands; either that or it's a shameless attempt at grade inflation to improve schools' performance and keep whinging parents off everyone's backs. In the absence of any exams though, I guess that we'll just never know*. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*

Spoiler

We really do though.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by vikingTON