Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Thereisalight..]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

Probably the fact it's far worse than the cold/flu?   

Cold and flu kills elderly/vulnerable though

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I wonder how many of the folk on here with the mindset of "one covid death is one too many", were happily going about their business every other year not worried about spreading colds/flu to the elderly and vulnerable which could potentially kill them. What makes this so different? 

Because this isn't the cold or flu.

The mortality rate for Covid-19 is substantially higher (anywhere from 3 to 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

It's a bold move calling anyone else a sad w****r given the sanctimonious shite you offer at anyone who criticises Leitch or anyone else involved in the more poorly handled aspects of this pandemic.

It's especially ironic given your insistence that going shopping for biscuits in April was a two-person operation. 

Have you been invited into the clique Miguel?  I hope so, I really do, you’re efforts deserve to be rewarded.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

Have you been invited into the clique Miguel?  I hope so, I really do, you’re efforts deserve to be rewarded.

*your

Of course, any pretence at good faith posting you had in this thread disappeared long ago, so carry on if it entertains you.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Miguel Sanchez said:

*your

Of course, any pretence at good faith posting you had in this thread disappeared long ago, so carry on if it entertains you.

I apologise for the poor grammar.  That second sentence goes way beyond irony when you consider who you’re lining up beside on here.  Incredible lack of self awareness.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

I apologise for the poor grammar.  That second sentence goes way beyond irony when you consider who you’re lining up beside on here.  Incredible lack of self awareness.

 

If you think people are lining up against you, you might want to reflect on why that is.

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Turns out there are some things that money can't buy.

I don't believe a word of that.

[101]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't believe a word of that.

A number of articles online saying you can buy a private vaccination for £2k

[Billy Jean King]

'Intriguing*' advice on how the public should respond to statements made by the country's Chief Medical Officer in the middle of a pandemic. Presumably all the other European governments are responding to Scotland's success by preparing their own senior official in facepaint, wig and bulbous, red nose for the public to ignore/'reinterpret' their advice: this being of proven value in handling the situation.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
*
Spoiler

moronic

 

He wasn't giving "advice" he was merely being quizzed by a breakfast tv host for his opinion which imo is very open to interpretation. You have gone from "clown shoes" to now hanging on and even believing him if you are taking his 2021 late summer talk at face value. That seems an odd stance given your disdain for him and his previous comments.

You hang on his words if you want I will continue to interpret / analyse his spewings without getting myself into a lathered state like many seem to be.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, renton said:

 

On the other hand, the efficiacy of one or both vaccines might end up being lower in the general populace than recorded in tests. It shouldn't be, but you can understand why they would want to see the effect on hospital admissions at least before committing to timeliness for easing restrictions.

The four tiers outlined by the Scottish Government were set up as the restrictions that would be required until there was a treatment for the disease. There is now one approved vaccine being delivered, several others on the way and different treatments for those who actually end up in hospital as well. At no stage in October was it announced as 'these are the restrictions that are needed until we are absolutely, 100% sure that nobody is ever going to get seriously ill' because yeah, nobody would actually have bought that nonsense at the time.

This is yet another case of the SG and its gormless happyclappers trying to shift the goalposts. 

[Arthur Orton]

17 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

He wasn't giving "advice" he was merely being quizzed by a breakfast tv host for his opinion which imo is very open to interpretation. You have gone from "clown shoes" to now hanging on and even believing him if you are taking his 2021 late summer talk at face value. That seems an odd stance given your disdain for him and his previous comments.

You hang on his words if you want I will continue to interpret / analyse his spewings without getting myself into a lathered state like many seem to be.

 

13 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

Absolutely outrageous that people would listen to the things a chief government spokesperson says during an unprecedented global pandemic. What fools we are, paying attention to the things he says!

Hes an NHS employee and you hang on his every word as gospel if you want. I will continue to mostly ignore his performance and hence won't get into a hysterical froth over his ramblings.

You are spectacularly missing the point here, the man is in a position of authority, his coupon is seen on the tv by the general public several times a day giving information and advices.

The general public as we have established have a considerable amount of people who believe everything they see or hear.  When a man in a position of authority such as Leitch gives his "opinion" on radio or tv a fair whack of people will take what he says as gospel.  

He is seen whether you like it or not as a spokesman for the SG so when he does his little radio appearances his musings aren't seen as the opinion of Tam the taxi driver but as an influential person whose advice helps shape government policy.  As  such, when he comes out with the things he does, a lot of which have been proven to be rubbish people will scrutinise them and take umbrage at them.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Tynierose

[renton]

Just now, virginton said:

The four tiers outlined by the Scottish Government were set up as the restrictions that would be required until there was a treatment for the disease. There is now one approved vaccine being delivered, several others on the way and different treatments for those who actually end up in hospital as well. At no stage in October was it announced as 'these are the restrictions that are needed until we are absolutely, 100% sure that nobody is ever going to get seriously ill' because yeah, nobody would actually have bought that nonsense at the time.

This is yet another case of the SG and its gormless happyclappers trying to shift the goalposts. 

Presumably we'll remain in the tier system until there is an effective delivery of said treatment to patients. No one seriously thought we'd abandon any and all restrictions the day the first dry ice packed doses of vaccine arrived.

 

[welshbairn]

If this is what people are talking about, the tone might be a bit gloomy but given what clinicians have been saying about the new strain, and given we've all just been put in lockdown, I don't think a cheery message would have gone down any better on here.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by welshbairn

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Presumably we'll remain in the tier system until there is an effective delivery of said treatment to patients. No one seriously thought we'd abandon any and all restrictions the day the first dry ice packed doses of vaccine arrived.

 

There has been effective delivery of treatment within hospitals for months which is why the mortality rate among admissions has dropped significantly between spring and now. Nice try at once again trying to shift the goalposts though.

 

[Billy Jean King]

You are spectacularly missing the point here, the man is in a position of authority, his coupon is seen on the tv by the general public several times a day giving information and advices.
The general public as we have established have a considerable amount of people who believe everything they see or hear.  When a man in a position of authority such as Leitch gives his "opinion" on radio or tv a fair whack of people will take what he says as gospel.  
He is seen whether you like it or not as a spokesman for the SG.

OK put it another way. Leitch has said he doesn't think that restrictions will be eased until summer. I personally don't agree with that so I won't be getting upset at his bullshit. If others do then fair enough nothing I can do about that.

IMO for that timescale to be accurate something will have to be spectacularly wrong with one or more of the vaccines. Either they don't work as expected or big issues with supply. I still firmly expect that if neither of these two issues occur we will see enough people vaccinated by the spring to start a sustained reduction in measures with them being pretty minimal by August. On that basis what Leitch says NOW is of little interest to me however come a few weeks after the release of the Oxford vaccine the stance is similar then imo will be the time to question any apparent delays.

The 1st vaccine was only approved this month. It's way too early for folk to be frothing over speculation it might take the best part of the year to get it rolled out sufficiently. I honestly don't get folk getting themselves into a panic over something that hasn't happened.

[renton]

Just now, virginton said:

There has been effective delivery of treatment within hospitals for months which is why the mortality rate among admissions has dropped significantly between spring and now. Nice try at once again trying to shift the goalposts though.

 

Mortality rate is one thing, overall number of hospitalizations is another. It wasn't so long ago that the forecast for NHS Lanarkshire was showing it well over stretch capacity before it went into tier 4. Any argument based on treatment within hospital relies on having enough spare capacity in the hospitals to care for those who need it. I'm not sure there is any model or forecast that allows you to do that while having unrestricted mixing in a susceptible population.

Surely it follows that the vaccine is the only way to reduce hospitalizations consistently. Therefore some level of restrictions is required until you at least have vaccinated those mostly likely to land up in hospital and have assessed the impact of those vaccinations on hospital numbers. That doesn't mean tier 4 all the way to that point, you'd hope. 

[Frankie S]

3 hours ago, WATTOO said:

When I could play golf with my friends, go abroad on holiday, go for a few beers with my friends, work from the office if I wanted, go shopping  when I wanted, Visit anyone I liked when I liked.

So basically other than concerts (which I don't attend) and clubbing (which I no longer do either), virtually everything was close to normality for me with the small exception of having to wear a mask at certain times when shopping or entering / leaving a licenced premise.

So pray tell, what was so different for you ??

I realise this wasn’t aimed at me, but I’ll tell you a few things that are different for me.

I run four businesses - a provincial nightclub / live music venue, a live music promotions company, a live music venue / bar / restaurant in Edinburgh and an events services company. The first two have been shut since March and will be shut until at least next March, and prob late 2021 if the drivel Leitch is spouting ATM turns out to have any substance /  the vaccine rollout takes longer than it should / SG continues to adhere to Devi Sridhar’s pie in the sky elimination strategy rather than move forward on the basis that once the most vulnerable sectors of society have been vaccinated we can all get back to something like normal. 28 members of staff furloughed for the nightclub in an area of comparative economic deprivation with little prospect of picking up alternative employment for many of them. Despite not attracting government support from various over-subscribed funds (GMV / COVRF etc.) we’ve retained all staff and topped up all management’s / full-timers wages to 100% throughout, at our own expense. With no end in sight and no clear exit strategy, despite vaccines coming onstream, it’s just a matter of sitting tight and burning through reserves in the hope that we’ll get the green light to trade again before the business exhausts its reserves.

The live music promotions company has had no support other than furlough, despite being closed for business for 9 months and counting, with summer 2021 looking like the earliest we’ll be allowed to trade again. Live music promoters haven’t even been eligible for Strategic Framework grants for businesses that have been forced to close or otherwise restricted by government restrictions, although I believe this loophole (one of many egregious funding gaps) will be closed in January.

My third business (the live music venue / bar / restaurant) was allowed to open briefly in Aug / Sept at greatly reduced capacity due to social distancing, and despite spending a ton of cash on perspex screens and other mitigations has been closed since all hospitality was shut down in central Scotland at the start of October. We declined to take the opportunity to open up again when Edinburgh was moved into Tier 3, as opening until 6.00pm serving food to people at a time almost no-one wants to eat, while not being allowed to serve alcohol even with a meal (neither of these restrictions applied in the second highest tier in England where bars / restaurants can serve alcohol with a meal and stay open until 11.00pm), and being forbidden from playing background music, thus sucking any atmosphere out of the place (a ridiculous restriction that applied only in Scotland and took 4 months to overturn) would have meant losing far more money than staying shut. Another 40-odd staff on furlough since March (bar the 2 month period we were allowed to open), and while we have received some significant grant funding here, with sky high Edinburgh city centre rent asphyxiating hospitality throughout the city and SG scapegoating the entire industry, the prospects for the future, and the medium to long term job security of the staff, are fairly grim, unless SG rolls out the vaccine pronto.

My fourth business, an events services company, has traded at approximately 20% of previous levels since March, since there are precious few events left to service. We’ve lost almost all of our turnover, and attracted a derisory 10k in grant funding from SG to date.

I’m glad things were ‘close to normality’ for you, as they sure weren’t for me and the circa 80 people I employ.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Frankie S

[djchapsticks]

10 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

I realise this wasn’t aimed at me, but I’ll tell you a few things that are different for me.

I run four businesses - a provincial nightclub / live music venue, a live music promotions company, a live music venue / bar / restaurant in Edinburgh and an events services company. The first two have been shut since March and will be shut until at least next March, and prob late 2021 if the drivel Leitch is spouting ATM turns out to have any substance /  the vaccine rollout takes longer than it should / SG continues to adhere to Devi Sridhar’s pie in the sky elimination strategy rather than move forward on the basis that once the most vulnerable sectors of society have been vaccinated we can all get back to something like normal. 28 members of staff furloughed for the nightclub in an area of comparative economic deprivation with little prospect of picking up alternative employment for many of them. Despite not attracting government support from various over-subscribed funds (GMV / COVRF etc.) we’ve retained all staff and topped up all management’s / full-timers wages to 100% throughout, at our own expense. With no end in sight and no clear exit strategy, despite vaccines coming onstream, it’s just a matter of sitting tight and burning through reserves in the hope that we’ll get the green light to trade again before the business exhausts it’s reserves.

The live music promotions company has had no support other than furlough, despite being closed for business for 9 months and counting, with summer 2021 looking like the earliest we’ll be allowed to trade again. Live music promoters haven’t even been eligible for Strategic Framework grants for businesses that have been forced to close or otherwise restricted by government restrictions, although I believe this loophole (one of many egregious funding gaps) will be closed in January.

My third business (the live music venue / bar / restaurant) was allowed to open briefly in Aug / Sept at greatly reduced capacity due to social distancing, and despite spending a ton of cash on perspex screens and other mitigations has been closed since all hospitality was shut down in central Scotland at the start of October. We declined to take the opportunity to open up again when Edinburgh was moved into Tier 3, as opening until 6.00pm serving food to people at a time almost no-one wants to eat, while not being allowed to serve alcohol even with a meal (neither of these restrictions applied in the second highest tier in England where bars / restaurants can serve alcohol with a meal and stay open until 11.00pm), and being forbidden from playing background music, thus sucking any atmosphere out of the place (a ridiculous restriction that applied only in Scotland and took 4 months to overturn) would have meant losing far more money than staying shut. Another 40-odd staff on furlough since March (bar the 2 month period we were allowed to open), and while we have received some significant grant funding here, with sky high Edinburgh city centre rent asphyxiating hospitality throughout the city and SG scapegoating the entire industry, the prospects for the future, and the jobs of the staff, are fairly grim, unless SG rolls out the vaccine pronto.

My fourth business, an events services company, has traded at approximately 20% of previous levels since March, since there are previous few events left to service. We’ve lost almost all of our turnover, and attracted a derisory 10k in grant funding from SG to date.

I’m glad things were ‘close to normality’ for you, as they sure weren’t for me and the circa 80 people I employ.

I await someone calling you a Tory off the back of this post.

I got called one earlier in the thread several weeks ago because I bemoaned the fact that my Mrs, who is a sole trading hairdresser working out of a wee summerhouse we got built in our garden, couldn't trade anymore despite adhering very carefully to guidelines and any sort of help was vague or non-existent because she was a new business who had never submitted a set of books yet. 

I got called a Tory because I was concerned that 50% of our household income was removed from us through no fault of our own.  

Edited December 27, 2020 by djchapsticks

[D.A.F.C]

Got petrol earlier and noticed nobody else was giving a f**k about wiping hands or using towels/gloves. Manky gits. It only takes seconds.

[D.A.F.C]

You've got to be kidding me. Holiday adverts based on a vaccine that nobody has any idea if it works long term.
Jab and go.

Desperate stuff.