Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[PWL]

27 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Frequent business travel (which I've always thought a bit of an oddity. People who do it moan like hell about it, but are never short in telling about their latest trip or 'checking in' on social media at an airport) is dead in the water. So they're should be a few less planes in the air.  

This. I work for a medium sized company (1,500 employees 15 UK offices.). The funds saved with the lack of travel, hotels and expenses for meetings and training courses is mind blowing even at our wee regional office level. 

The corporate travel sector will be a fraction of what it was after this. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, PWL said:

This. I work for a medium sized company (1,500 employees 15 UK offices.). The funds saved with the lack of travel, hotels and expenses for meetings and training courses is mind blowing even at our wee regional office level. 

The corporate travel sector will be a fraction of what it was after this. 

That is in itself a good thing, coupled with hopefully a change in culture with more people working from home and hopefully more flexible practices. That should see a significant environmental impact. 

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, 101 said:

But I would assume you never saw such rapid change and across all sectors.

It's time to take just about everything we did before the pandemic hold it up and say was this really the best way to do things. It's time to ramp up change not slow it down.

Maybe not quite as rapid but the internet, smartphones, social media etc have changed life and our day to day pretty significantly over just the last 20 years.

I agree we can ramp up change but it's already happening and we don't need lockdown restrictions to achieve them.

[Marshmallo]

24 minutes ago, 101 said:

I agree the clamour to return to how things were is odd. The world has changed and using 2019 as a yard stick will disappoint a lot of people. Why would anyone want to go back to working in an office or set hours even people who have been furloughed might think they can get by working 4 days a week giving them much more time to enjoy life.

Let's not go back to how things were we need to go forward clean up wet markets, ramp up lab produced meat, tackle inequalities, fund the NHS and generally make sure that when the next pandemic hits we are better prepared whilst reducing the chances of it happening.

"Why would anyone have a different opinion to me?"

I don't think "wet market" means what you think it means btw. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

13 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Yes, astonishing how people would like to get back to normal life when we're not allowed to leave our homes except for 'essential purposes' , get fined a few hundred quid if a police officer deems we've started too far from home, are required to wear a piece of fabric over our faces to go and buy things at the supermarket, are forbidden from leaving the country for a holiday and any form of indoor entertainment/hospitality is closed. It is also winter with many cold and miserable days and we are also forbidden from seeing friends/family in an indoor with limited exceltions. 

This isn't life - it's fucking shite. 

But hold on a minute SOME people had to go and fight in the world wars and all you had to do was stay in the house and watch tv, how dare you complain!

also as a "key" worker i'm not tired exhausted or needing clapped for, although I don't work in medical care so maybe that's why!  but i'm quite glad that I still get to go into work, yes i'm at more risk of catching the virus but it also helps break up the time and gives a few hours each day when you don't feel like your in a lockdown. 

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

Serious question.

Has anyone in the media in the UK asked the question to Government(s). Why are so many people dead in the UK compared to rest of the world?  What the f**k is happening?

I haven't checked so I don't know, but what are total all cause mortality figures like for the UK in 2020 vs the likes of Europe, the US etc?

It's obvious our response was not good, but with everyone counting what constitues a Covid death differently, looking at that number alone won't be a fair comparison to determine just how bad it was.

[Wee Bully]

Yes, astonishing how people would like to get back to normal life when we're not allowed to leave our homes except for 'essential purposes' , get fined a few hundred quid if a police officer deems we've strayed too far from home, are required to wear a piece of fabric over our faces to go and buy things at the supermarket, are forbidden from leaving the country for a holiday and any form of indoor entertainment/hospitality is closed. It is also winter with many cold and miserable days and we are also forbidden from seeing friends/family in an indoor with limited exceptions. 
This isn't life - it's fucking shite. 

I think you have quite spectacularly missed the point being made.

No-one is arguing against the points you have made. What is being suggested is that going “back” to something different might actually be better, and that not everything coming out of the changes to our lives has been bad.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Maybe not quite as rapid but the internet, smartphones, social media etc have changed life and our day to day pretty significantly over just the last 20 years.

I agree we can ramp up change but it's already happening and we don't need lockdown restrictions to achieve them.

I did think once what if this had happened even 20 years ago? we stil had the internet, mobile phones and 24 hour news but not to the extent of today, would they have done far less in terms of shutting down the economy because you couldn't have worked from home with dial up?  would they have allowed everyone to go to work as normal to keep things ticking over? who knows , as much as I never liked the c**t I recon tony blairs 2000 government might have handled this different

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 minute ago, Wee Bully said:

I think you have quite spectacularly missed the point being made.

No-one is arguing against the points you have made. What is being suggested is that going “back” to something different might actually be better, and that not everything coming out of the changes to our lives has been bad.

I think people have a slight worry in the back of their mind, you have some fringe scientist who seem ever more single minded than devi , who have made some extreme suggestions like masks and distancing will go on potentially for the rest of our lives and things like crowded dancefloors and gatherings may never again be permitted, that's not the view of the mainstream of course but these nutters do get some air time, as do manic facebook posters who say " the only time you'll see the old way of life is in movies" or even this minority report style shite about needing proof of vaccination just to not live off the grid!    now when you couple that with the feeling that when you are in the middle of something like this , it feels never ending. it's easy to see how rational people can become quite anxious

[SlipperyP]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I haven't checked so I don't know, but what are total all cause mortality figures like for the UK in 2020 vs the likes of Europe, the US etc?

It's obvious our response was not good, but with everyone counting what constitues a Covid death differently, looking at that number alone won't be a fair comparison to determine just how bad it was.

I know you declared the pandemic over a few months ago.  However, to respond to my question in the past tense is just crass.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, SlipperyP said:

I know you declared the pandemic over a few months ago.  However, to respond to my question in the past tense is just crass.

How is it crass?

[SlipperyP]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

How is it crass?

Death numbers are going up daily....it's happening now.

[101]

31 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

"Why would anyone have a different opinion to me?"

I don't think "wet market" means what you think it means btw. 

The clamour to get back into 5 days a week commuting is baffling. 

As for wet markets:

ETA, if you want inequalities to rumble on Marshy away and join the mad Tories down south.

Edited January 21, 2021 by 101

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, SlipperyP said:

Death numbers are going up daily....it's happening now.

Actually no, they are not. They have, at least for now, levelled off.

But that wasn't my point, nor was I defending anything. You asked why the press aren't asking why more people were dying here than anywhere else. To answer that question you first need to see how many people are dying here, and elsewhere, in total.

And if you want a longer term answer to that question, then you can do so by looking at 2020.

If stating the obvious is crass then you are entitled to your opinion, but I would disagree.

[Michael W]

27 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

I think you have quite spectacularly missed the point being made.

No-one is arguing against the points you have made. What is being suggested is that going “back” to something different might actually be better, and that not everything coming out of the changes to our lives has been bad.

Perhaps we could have had that adult conversation from our leaders on this matter, then? Instead all we've been fed is that we must abide by these restrictions for x period, which will then be extended anyway. Yes the virus is the immediate priority, but we also need to look ahead and "what can we do better" ought to be on the agenda. On that note there's an election coming up in 4 months' time. 

Of course there will be changes arising from this. However the changes in place at the moment have been hugely negative for the most part and I will be very happy when they are removed entirely. Off the top of my head, most likely the following will present various issues:

1) Unemployment will become a huge problem and will need to be addressed in a way it probably hasn't before

2) Despite at least a decade of "death of the High Street" type headlines, I think we might have indeed finally killed it. It will be a massive task repurposing high streets so that they don't become a post-covid wasteland.

3) I expect business travel will be curtailed substantially. My firm has already outlined it will be reduced and others will do the same - the cost savings are not to be sniffed at amongst other things. 

4) Flexible working/WFH. Safe to say the cat is out the bag here and these should be an option for those that want them. I'd prefer to be in the office than at home tbf, but then I'm not paying £5k for a sason ticket. Businesses might well have trouble retaining staff if they don't offer flexibility. 

5) Corporate events - companies in this space are utterly screwed, frankly. So much money has been saved by not having them and, at any rate, they are a massive virus risk firms will be keen to avoid. 

6) We've seen a closing of borders that is unprecedented in my lifetime and most likely hasn't been seen since WW2. This isn't going to go away any time soon and I think expectations need to be managed in this regard - we won't be near as "free" to travel as we were 12 months ago for a while yet. There's bound to be a wider impact of this at a political level as well.

Things won't be entirely the same afterwards, I agree, but the majority of the things we aren't allowed to do at the moment are fairly basic things and for most people are the things that are normal. It's seeing their friends/family, going for a meal or to the pub, football cinema etc. people want to do again, not to go to Slough on business or commute 45mins to an industrial estate in East Kilbride five times a week. Yes the latter is something we can't always avoid but it is sometimes necessary. It's the things we enjoy we want back - actually being able to live life rather than stay at home and go out for a walk. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Michael W

[Jacksgranda]

12 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Not logged on for a while. The last few pages feels like screaming into the void by people who can’t read beyond a headline.

If you think that booking a non-refundable holiday for this summer is a good idea, launch right ahead. I want a holiday too, but I might just go for the refundable option, just in case.

At the present time, a "holiday" for us would be able to go out for a meal with my stepdaughters and their children, maybe three separate meals.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

The clamour to get back into 5 days a week commuting is baffling. 

As for wet markets:

Some people may have different life experiences than you - who knew!

We should ban all animals and humans imo - responsible for transmission of this deadly plague    

[10menwent2mow]

While working from home may become more of a thing it will lead to fairly significant job losses as a knock on. If office buildings are closed as everyone works from home that'll mean job losses for cleaners, security workers, perhaps canteen staff, car park staff. Shop next to the office block may close. If no-one is going into town centres to work then many food outlets may have to close if they rely on office staff.

It's an easy thing to say that working from home is good and I see the benefits, but there are many downsides to it as well.

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, 101 said:

The clamour to get back into 5 days a week commuting is baffling. 

Not everyone, btw, has had the opportunity to stop commuting.

I imagine these people would like to "get back to normal" where they can meet their friends, go out for dinner, attend events, go on holiday, and maybe even (whisper it) have a pint now and again.

Absolutely baffling that right enough.

[101]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

Some people may have different life experiences than you - who knew!

We should ban all animals and humans imo - responsible for transmission of this deadly plague    

Of course they do, I said it was baffling, not wrong. If you actually engaged and explained why you enjoy commuting then perhaps you would find the forum more useful.

Again you are leaping from conclusion to conclusion. If you are pro wet markets please tell me why they are such a good thing? Why should animals be kept in such conditions? Why should rare animals be slaughtered for food? Why should public health hazards not face scrutiny in a post Covid world? Why shouldn't we look at producing meat without animal slaughter?