Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

I do enjoy the audacity of a poster who lives across the other side of the world acting as the voice of authority, and lecturing on the mood of the British public, based on a few YouGov polls, whilst simultaneously completely dismissing the views of people who actually interact with the British public on a daily basis.

That’s ‘FAKE NEWS!!  FAKE POLLS!!’ stuff right there.

It reminds me of the Georgian Republicans claiming that Trump had won the State based on them knowing how people voted.

The level is self delusion is incredible.

[LongTimeLurker]

What percentage of people are actually wearing masks properly and are taking them off and cleaning them correctly? It's basically futile to mandate it if most people are not doing it correctly which is why WHO recommended against them in the pandemic protocols that got discarded pretty much everywhere other than Sweden. The false sense of security they provide to a large percentage of people wearing them under their nose for comfort reasons can cancel out any net benefits. 

[Elixir]

10 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Not really, this one is already global and finding humans tasty. I hope we're gradually killing it off by leaving it nowhere to go, but it's a hope, not a certainty.

No, it absolutely is a certainty that this pandemic will end. Thankfully sooner in some places than others.

 

10 hours ago, pandarilla said:

10 hours ago, Elixir said:

This is as equally likely a scenario as an entirely new virus emerging which sparks an entirely new pandemic. Not something we obsess daily life over. Bin.

It's not even close to being as equally likely.

Every lineage that has come and gone in the past 18 months is susceptible to vaccination. Over the medium and long term, they will need to be monitored and updated accordingly. For a virus to change so radically in the short-term, would be to defy virology. Indeed, 'Delta' is likely approaching its peak evolutionary fitness. No future 'variant' is expected to escape immunity enough to the extent that eventual re-infections are not mild in nature. This is how the pandemic will end.

 

7 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

It's less than a week since restrictions were lifted. It's a misunderstanding on your part to suggest anyone said case rates would be exponential within a week. That's not how this virus works and we've known that for over a year.

Yes, let's just forget that we had half the country binning off social distancing for an entire month during the Euros. It looks to me like the virus is continuing to behave exactly as predicted, what a disaster for you:

 

6 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

Herd immunity doesn't work the way many on this thread seem to assume.

Only 55% of the UK's adults are double dosed. It also seems very likely now that immunity levels drop off six months after infection, and possibly vaccination. So a lot of the previously infected, for example, will not have the levels of immunity people assume.

And 55% DV'd is nowhere near good enough, as considered by any other country. Put simply, everybody else thinks this is way too early.

Genuine question; Why do you think there has been an almost unanimously negative, and very strongly worded in many cases, response from the scientific community and foreign governments to what the UK is doing just now?

Oh, I don't know, possibly because there are few countries anywhere in the world with the combined levels of immunity from both previous infection and vaccination that the UK enjoys, hence ~90% with at least some level of detectable antibodies. You also do know it was SAGE that gave the go ahead for this current unlocking, right? Right? Not your 'Independent SAGE' shills with their hidden political agendas.

And good to know you still don't understand that immunity is a scale, it isn't binary. Immunity will of course wane over time, but not to the degree that eventual re-infections aren't expected to be exceedingly mild in nature. Again, this is how we move from a pandemic state to an endemic state. That said, immunity to Covid actually appears to be holding up very well for at least six months, and probably a fair bit longer.

 

6 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

It's not though. We have 55% of the UK population vaccinated, while people on this thread continue to talk as if it were 100%.

There's also a well-oiled global system for keeping flu jabs up to date, which is why we're able to control it reasonably well. That does not exist for covid yet. This is why it's so dangerous to open the door to more variants by allowing numbers to stay high. We're not at the point where that's a good idea yet. The infrastructure we have for flu is not there for covid.

And the covid is more transmissible and more deadly than flu. A significant number of people infected will be left with long-term health effects.

Nobody of any credible expert standing that I have heard agrees with the covid=flu idea. Yet we see it on this thread all the time.

It's just not true.

Actually, no. The people who made the fucking vaccines have been quite clear that it will be relatively easy to update the vaccines within a matter of weeks, if required.

The reason why 'Covid isn't Flu' is because of a naive global population with no prior immunity. Thankfully, vaccination and previous infection will and is turning it into just another virus we live with.

More baseless assumptions and posturing from yourself.

 

2 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

That's simply not true though, is it?

There's a huge psychological and peer pressure side to that. A friend of mine is currently home visiting parents in England from South Korea. He has been taking far more risks than he wants to because his mum and dad call him a stick in the mud if he doesn't.

The poling is repeatedly clear. And it's generally in line with scientific advice. The government's advice is the outlier, and actually supporting that is a minority view.

Your friend sounds every bit as much of a drip as someone I'd expect you to 'socialise' with. Good on his Mum and Dad.

 

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

I do enjoy the audacity of a poster who lives across the other side of the world acting as the voice of authority, and lecturing on the mood of the British public, based on a few YouGov polls, whilst simultaneously completely dismissing the views of people who actually interact with the British public on a daily basis.

Especially considering recent polling actually shows the public support the binning of measures by quite some distance:

 

1 hour ago, TheJTS98 said:

1) No, I didn't. I posted that there was an element of that involved, and I think it's clear that there is.

2) No. I don't ignore that. But I weight it alongside the fact that the polls follow the view of the scientific community and then I look at the absence of polls showing the opposite view, and I make the conclusion that the polls are more likely an accurate reflection of the public opinion than this thread.

3) This is not misleading. This is completely in keeping with pretty much all scientific advice that the UK is not yet at an adequate level of vaccination to open up.

The UK is absolutely bursting with immunity from both vaccination, prior infection, and a combination of the two - partly why infections have started to drop like a stone. Again, the real SAGE are the ones who gave the OK for the most recent binning of restrictions to go ahead. So much for your 'overwhelming agreement of the scientific community' (the international political shills).

[Elixir]

16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What percentage of people are actually wearing masks properly and are taking them off and cleaning them correctly? It's basically futile to mandate it if most people are not doing it correctly which is why WHO recommended against them in the pandemic protocols that got discarded pretty much everywhere other than Sweden. The false sense of security they provide to a large percentage of people wearing them under their nose for comfort reasons can cancel out any net benefits. 

This is pretty much the crux of the issue. You simply have to look at the data from the US states that imposed them and those that didn't to see any benefit is negligible at best at a population level. At worst they are a placebo that meant people kept their distance less.

[Savage Henry]

10 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Is JTS98 trolling?

If so he has a fair few on here biting.

In fairness, it doesn’t seem that hard to raise the ire of anti-maskers.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Elixir said:

This is pretty much the crux of the issue. You simply have to look at the data from the US states that imposed them and those that didn't to see any benefit is negligible at best at a population level. At worst they are a placebo that meant people kept their distance less.

The poster children of no rules, Florida and Texas, are now going rampant, about a third of new cases in America. Hospitalisation up 40% in a week.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/23/austin-stage4-covid-19-masks/

Edited July 25, 2021 by welshbairn

[invergowrie arab]

15 hours ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Been at the full spectrum today and can assure all masks are as good as done in Dundee.

Soft play with the wee lass, coffee shop, supermarket, junior game and boozer. Barely a mask in sight.

I did all the same yesterday apart from soft play.

Obviously no masks at the football as we were all outside but as for the rest are you are talking pish.

[Thereisalight..]

Got to laugh at people deeming folk anti maskers because they realise it's all just the illusion of "being safe". Most masks out there are just a tiny bit better than useless. I wear one in shops etc to keep up with the pantomime but at the football etc they're rightly binned. Some sancatmonious posters really making an appearance today 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Thereisalight..

[TheScarf]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I think they're permanent unfortunately, and it's about traffic calming and semi pedestrianisation rather than Covid I believe. They're fucking horrible.

Yeah I’ve heard they’re going to be permanent too.  Castle street is a joke now.

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

You can dress it up any way you want, but you are arguing here for a segregated society and/or forced medical treatment.

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.

This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.

Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

[mizfit]

The poster children of no rules, Florida and Texas, are now going rampant, about a third of new cases in America. Hospitalisation up 40% in a week.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/23/austin-stage4-covid-19-masks/

Actually, I was reading that with Texas.
I’ve a feeling this is the worldwide third wave. We in Scotland have maybe got lucky and had ours in advance of everywhere else. Even then, we’ve done not bad in the third wave.

[Michael W]

"Only the diseased people will have freedoms while the rest are forced out" 

Yikes. 

[superbigal]

I'll stick my head above the parapet again.

Along with my factual reporting I do I am for sanctions against those that choose to be non vaccinated.
So if the easiest way is vaccine ID then count me in.

I am also for all sanctions to be lifted immediately for those with at least 1 vaccine dose.


Kids and medical exemption apart of course

[Bairnardo]

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.
You say it like it's a bad thing.
If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.
This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.
Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

Absolute w****r.

I just thought you were someone who thought they were much cleverer than everyone else, but theres also a horrible streak to it too apparently.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

[Honest_Man#1]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

In what way am I dressing it up? I absolutely do want a segregated society as long as the pandemic continues and so do most people that don't inhabit this thread.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

If we don't have vaccine passports then we'll have an equally segregated society, only it's the diseased people who'll have all the freedoms while the rest of us are forced out. That's the wrong way round.

This is segregation by self-selection and for very good reasons.

Anyway, I made a mistake last night by coming on here and I'll try not to repeat it.

“I absolutely do want a segregated society” and “the diseased people” is utterly wild stuff. Genuine propaganda language in this day and age.

Oh, and with regards to the bolded bit... 

10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Absolute w****r.

I just thought you were someone who thought they were much cleverer than everyone else, but theres also a horrible streak to it too apparently.

Genuinely one of the worst c***s on here. The smugness and condescension is bad enough (especially when accompanied by being wrong), but some of the above is appalling.

[mizfit]

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

There’s a girl at my work who became radicalised for lack of a better word in December, claiming the vaccines were dead babies programmed to stop us having children.

Her social media the last few days as she’s slowly realised her opinion is in the minority and she’s one of the few to reject the vaccine and is likely to be banned from venues etc if passports come in has been particularly fun.

[Bairnardo]

Just as a wee aside, what was the expectation of vaccine takeup prior to the start of the program?

I ask, because we have definitely wildly exceeded it. Thats been acknowledged but I dont know the numbers the govt were assuming. 

So how would we have ever exited this, if take up was say, 70%?

I have also never seen an arguement of how vaccine passports keep us safe, given that transmission of, and catching of, the virus are both still possible when vaccinated. 

[Michael W]

10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive yet to see a decent argument from the folks who think we shouldnt have vaccine passports when essentially the restrictions etc are all being extended because people have refused vaccines and extending the pandemic. We are all suffering because of people who side with right said fred. Medical reasons/exemptions pregnancy etc aside if you dont get vaccinated youre a sefish fucker and deserve to continue in restrictions whilst the rest of us go on. 

The vaccines work and the majority of the population have had them. The people who are vaccinated are therefore protected and those that refuse? They're on their own. 

We don't need them. And the suggestion of them being required is feeding the fears of people who are utterly terrified at the thought of being in proximity to an unvaccinated person, even where this person is double vaccinated. 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Just as a wee aside, what was the expectation of vaccine takeup prior to the start of the program?

I ask, because we have definitely wildly exceeded it. Thats been acknowledged but I dont know the numbers the govt were assuming. 

So how would we have ever exited this, if take up was say, 70%?

I have also never seen an arguement of how vaccine passports keep us safe, given that transmission of, and catching of, the virus are both still possible when vaccinated. 

Yes they’re still possible.  But significantly less likely.