Hank von Hell Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 19/05/2020 at 16:59, BallochSonsFan said: Scottish football won't restart behind closed doors. The old firm might be able to webcast games on a subscription basis but for most teams it isn't practical. Football is a social thing. Fans would likely order a single webcast and congregate at a mates house with a few beers. No matchday food, drink, programme or 50/50 revenue. There won't be a closed door scenario for the lower leagues. Clubs don't have the time, money and expertise to make webcasting work across 42 clubs. We open clubs to spectators or we don't play. Whether that's August with no Betfred group games or September/October with no challenge cup, Scottish football needs fans through turnstiles. Once contracts exhaust we'll see clubs mothballed. We need to hope that enough people care when restrictions are lifted to want to return to our collective Saturday obsession. It's inevitable that we'll all see some fans walking away from football. Can clubs be truly mothballed? I meant there must be some running costs, maintenance , at least some staff. With zero income how long can you sustain it? A vaccine is the only way out of this for Scottish football. Otherwise you become a Third Lanark kind of mothballed - which probably answers my first question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 14 hours ago, strichener said: I guess they can keep them employed and furloughed without registering them as players. Since most of these players will be monthly paid, you can actually get the money from the government before you pay out wages. Employed as what if not a player? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, sirscottyoung said: This is the post I think I was referring to back when I posted. Dunfermline's https://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Coronavirus__&ID=11786 Not quite announcing armageddon but I take your point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: Can clubs be truly mothballed? I meant there must be some running costs, maintenance , at least some staff. With zero income how long can you sustain it? A vaccine is the only way out of this for Scottish football. Otherwise you become a Third Lanark kind of mothballed - which probably answers my first question. They can. Clubs will still have some running costs but in the lower leagues it would be minimal wages as almost all players will be out of contract within days. Office staff? Many are part time. Suppliers shouldn't be an issue over the summer and presumably won't be until football is ready to restart. Minimal maintenance costs. It won't be pretty but it could be an option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Moonster said: Employed as what if not a player? Why does it matter? If the intention is only to keep people on the JRS then the club can employ them all as ambassadors for all it matters. The point being that they are deemed by the SFA to be player once they are registered which is a separate issue to whether a club keeps them employed whilst Government support is available. Edited May 20, 2020 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, strichener said: Why does it matter? If the intention is only to keep people on the JRS then the club can employ them all as ambassadors for all it matters. The point being that they are deemed by the SFA to be player once they are registered which is a separate issue to whether a club keeps them employed whilst Government support is available. Is this even possible under the furlough scheme though? It's there to stop people being made redundant from a contract that can't be fulfilled. Once that contract is up and clubs still don't have any football to play, surely the government will be asking why they're handing out new contracts to people when they have no "work" to fulfil? The player is unemployed and the club has no reason to continue to employ them. The government will simply point them towards the job centre and Universal credit. If I'm totally wrong, fair enough, I'm just not convinced short term deals with the sole purpose of claiming government support will be valid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Is this even possible under the furlough scheme though? It's there to stop people being made redundant from a contract that can't be fulfilled. Once that contract is up and clubs still don't have any football to play, surely the government will be asking why they're handing out new contracts to people when they have no "work" to fulfil? The player is unemployed and the club has no reason to continue to employ them. The government will simply point them towards the job centre and Universal credit. If I'm totally wrong, fair enough, I'm just not convinced short term deals with the sole purpose of claiming government support will be valid. You completely misunderstand how employment contracts work and the workings of the JRS. The unprecedented measure introduced for the JRS have turned enjoyment law on its head. It allowed previously dismissed employees to be re-employed and entered straight onto the JRS scheme and even allowed this to be back dated. There is no doubt that existing Fixed term contracts can be extended and for those employees to remain on the JRS. This is the actual government advice Quote Employees on fixed term contracts can be furloughed. The Updated Guidance also states that the employer can “renew or extend the contract during the furlough period without breaking the terms of the scheme”. This suggests that the employer can do so without having to show that it would have extended or renewed the fixed term contract in normal circumstances or that there is any prospect that it has any future work for the fixed term contract worker to carry out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscottyoung Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Rob1885 said: Not quite announcing armageddon but I take your point. Yeah the annan one was more armageddon whereas pars was more serious financial issues 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: Can clubs be truly mothballed? I meant there must be some running costs, maintenance , at least some staff. With zero income how long can you sustain it? A vaccine is the only way out of this for Scottish football. Otherwise you become a Third Lanark kind of mothballed - which probably answers my first question. Not quite the same as the SPFL but Penicuik Athletic lost their ground in the early 90s and stopped playing but kept paying their subs to the SJFA and had non voting observer status at East Junior FA meetings. They also apparently kept their lottery going through nearly a decade of non playing which saved up a nice sum of money. They've have some success since coming back about 20 years ago and are well supported. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscottyoung Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Not quite announcing armageddon but I take your point.Mass exodus at Dunfermline with no contracts being renewed if they haven't already 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said: Mass exodus at Dunfermline with no contracts being renewed if they haven't already Aye, that us going out of business. This situation definitely hasn't happened at other clubs and definitely won't happen at other clubs. We had a 'mass exodus' at the end of the season last year too. Somehow the club survived. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ecosse83 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Aye, that us going out of business. This situation definitely hasn't happened at other clubs and definitely won't happen at other clubs. We had a 'mass exodus' at the end of the season last year too. Somehow the club survived. Why didn't you furlough them for another month or so? Poor show that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Ecosse83 said: Why didn't you furlough them for another month or so? Poor show that! I don't sit on the board so I have no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscottyoung Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Aye, that us going out of business. This situation definitely hasn't happened at other clubs and definitely won't happen at other clubs. We had a 'mass exodus' at the end of the season last year too. Somehow the club survived.Why release them and not keep them on till this is over. The spfl board that your chief is on told Dundee to extend contracts... Why haven't yours? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, sirscottyoung said: 13 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Aye, that us going out of business. This situation definitely hasn't happened at other clubs and definitely won't happen at other clubs. We had a 'mass exodus' at the end of the season last year too. Somehow the club survived. Why release them and not keep them on till this is over. The spfl board that your chief is on told Dundee to extend contracts... Why haven't yours? I don't sit on the board so I have no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Do clubs not have to pay the players first then get the money back to cover furlough? If the cash isn't there in the first place, then thats tricky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said: Why release them and not keep them on till this is over. The spfl board that your chief is on told Dundee to extend contracts... Why haven't yours? Extend contracts until when? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscottyoung Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Extend contracts until when? End of june 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said: End of june Did Dunfermline not have the option to do the same ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Are clubs/businesses not obliged to top up the furlough scheme after August? Maybe the cash reserves aren't there to do that at Dunfermline hence this decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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