Kelty awarded title

[selfassemblyshire]

Not looking good for promotion lads. Gutted at that

[Kelheart]

Just have to win the league next season for real this time hopefully , just be glad to get watching fitty again 

[Nimmo's Notes]

Don't see how they can deny Kelty and Brora a promotion place. Play offs from the pyramid are now part of the Scottish League structure and the reward for winning the league. 

If the play offs are cancelled then they should be obliged to promote them. 

[Marten]

Just now, Nimmo's Notes said:

Don't see how they can deny Kelty and Brora a promotion place. Play offs from the pyramid are now part of the Scottish League structure and the reward for winning the league. 

If the play offs are cancelled then they should be obliged to promote them. 

As far as I know, it's written in the regulations that the SFA, SPFL, LL and HL all have to agree a change in the PO. This would effectively be a temporary change so it can be questioned whether or not the same procedure applies but it doesn't sound right to me.

[Fifes Elite Force]

I think kelty should be approaching both UEFA and consulting lawyers about this. Having a pyramid I am sure was a requirement by UEFA who made all governing bodies sign up in principle to putting in place a pyramid of some sort. The lowland and the highland leagues were also not part of the vote and need to be consulted if they change the pyramid as far as I ak aware. Brechin whose chairman is on the spfl board are saved even though everyone else is relegated (hearts pending) because in the vote they said that no team will be relegated from the spfl....but yet partick, stranraer are and hearts will likely be.

Questions here are can UEFA step in and say you cant relegate some teams and then keep others up especially when there a clear conflict ot interest. Have the spfl breached their own rules by not consulting the lowland and highland leagues about the pyramid removal?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Fifes Elite Force]

19 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Load of nonsense, its a one off under extreme circumstances. Playoffs didn't happen so neither Brora or Kelty had any "right" as such to entry into the SPFL. Once SPFL had set up to discuss restructuring then it was  worth while trying to get both teams promoted , although it  clear from the start the other clubs wouldn't go for it.  

It's not nonsense if there is an agreement (or rules in place)and the spfl have breached it. Do you know if there is or isnt an agreement?

 

Edit- and how can asking a question on the rules be nonsense. It's a question not a statement.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Fifes Elite Force]

On the subject I see kelty have tweeted this

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

On the subject I see kelty have tweeted this

The problem with looking at one specific rule is you can find another that contradicts it. Especially considering the circumstances. Under the rules its the SPFL that states the dates of the pyramid playoffs. Which it did at the start of the season. 25th April & 2nd May for HL v LL. 10th May & 16th May for Club 42 v. HL/LL winner.

Under the lockdown there's no football being played.

You can argue that with everyone ending their seasons, matches haven't been postponed, they've been abandoned. In which case under Rule HH the SPFL can do whatever they want.

[Fifes Elite Force]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The problem with looking at one specific rule is you can find another that contradicts it. Especially considering the circumstances. Under the rules its the SPFL that states the dates of the pyramid playoffs. Which it did at the start of the season. 25th April & 2nd May for HL v LL. 10th May & 16th May for Club 42 v. HL/LL winner.

Under the lockdown there's no football being played.

You can argue that with everyone ending their seasons, matches haven't been postponed, they've been abandoned. In which case under Rule HH the SPFL can do whatever they want.

Agreed it's a legal minefield. That's why I think  consulting lawyers, sfa and UEFA is the best course of action.

[big al]

There are many sides in Scotland who are all in the same position as Kelty, in a play off place. 
From 2nd bottom of premiership, to 2nd 3rd and 4th in championship and so on down the leagues. 
They have all missed out on their chance for promotion/relegation, just as Kelty and Brora have as the play offs are cancelled due to the virus.

Not sure what any fuss from Kelty is about. Everyone else seems to have accepted it that could have gone up with the exception of Falkirk who felt they would win the title and automatically go up.

[Fifes Elite Force]

32 minutes ago, big al said:

There are many sides in Scotland who are all in the same position as Kelty, in a play off place. 
From 2nd bottom of premiership, to 2nd 3rd and 4th in championship and so on down the leagues. 
They have all missed out on their chance for promotion/relegation, just as Kelty and Brora have as the play offs are cancelled due to the virus.

Not sure what any fuss from Kelty is about. Everyone else seems to have accepted it that could have gone up with the exception of Falkirk who felt they would win the title and automatically go up.

Kelty have been declared champions. In the 3 leagues above them the team who won their league (were top at lockdown stage) have been promoted.  Would dundee United, rovers and cove have been furious and made a fuss if denied promotion?

 

Theres also clearly rules within the spfl rulebook about the champions of the lowland league and on the pyramid structure. Politically it's bad too. Something like 100 clubs have joined the sfa from the sjfa on the premise there is a pyramid including a load in the past few months from the west and this is making a mockery of it. UEFA pushed for pyramids around europe too which the spfl grudgingly had to accept in some format.

 

Kelty also jumped ship a year before the other juniors and invested heavily knowing it will get more difficult as more junior clubs filter up to the lowland league.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Ginaro]

15 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

43 minutes ago, big al said:

 

Kelty have been declared champions. In the 3 leagues above them the team who won their league (were top at lockdown stage) have been promoted.  Would dundee United, rovers and cove have been furious and made a fuss if denied promotion?

The three leagues above them have automatic promotion.

P.S. someone needs to proofread these Kelty statement as it make them look illiterate

Edited May 8, 2020 by Ginaro

[Fifes Elite Force]

14 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

The three leagues above them have automatic promotion.

Correct. And the lowland league has a playoff and opportunity at promotion something that's being denied without discussion or consultation even though its part of the spfl rules.

With the brechin chairman(the team inpacted) as a board member at the spfl putting forward the motions.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Ginaro]

19 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Correct. And the lowland league has a playoff something that's being denied without discussion of consultation even though its part of the spfl rules.

The problem with the rules is that there seems to be plenty of ways for the SPFL to get out of holding a play-off, or even if it was held the SPFL could decide Kelty/Brora don't meet the membership criteria "in the opinion of the Board in its absolute discretion" - rule D2.

Have a flick through: https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Rules and Regulations 20-Jan-20 (MASTER COPY) CLEAN.pdf

Suppose C12.4 is the most promising one to try and enforce ahead of next season, as it basically says the final place in League Two goes to the club which is the winner of the pyramid play-off between the HL/LL and club 42. So do Brechin even have a place in the SPFL next season, if the play-off doesn't go ahead?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Ginaro

[Fifes Elite Force]

4 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

The problem with the rules is that there seems to be plenty of ways for the SPFL to get out of holding a play-off

Yeah there is. See my post above that mentions that.

 

On the criteria point that would be risky ground for them. If you compare the facilities and set up at kelty compared to down the road at cowdenbeath. They would also need to offer an explanation of why they wouldnt meet the criteria or what  criteria they didnt meet. Bearing in mind they met the criteria for an sfa license and meet all safety requirments. If they went down that route I think kelty would take them to court and win.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[craigkillie]

If the SPFL had gone ahead with reconstruction and excluded Brora and Kelty I would have agreed that both clubs were being completely shafted here. However, in this scenario where the leagues stay the same, it's just an unfortunate and somewhat unavoidable scenario under extreme circumstances. It's impossible to hold the play-offs, so there's no real alternative other than cancelling them. If Brora can't face off against Kelty to decide who the "candidate club" are for the League 2 Play-off, then how can the SPFL make any other decision than the one they have?

Edited May 8, 2020 by craigkillie

[big al]

48 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Kelty have been declared champions. In the 3 leagues above them the team who won their league (were top at lockdown stage) have been promoted.  Would dundee United, rovers and cove have been furious and made a fuss if denied promotion?

 

Theres also clearly rules within the spfl rulebook about the champions of the lowland league and on the pyramid structure. Politically it's bad too. Something like 100 clubs have joined the sfa from the sjfa on the premise there is a pyramid including a load in the past few months from the west and this is making a mockery of it. UEFA pushed for pyramids around europe too which the spfl grudgingly had to accept in some format.

 

Kelty also jumped ship a year before the other juniors and invested heavily knowing it will get more difficult as more junior clubs filter up to the lowland league.

You are making up your own rules mate to justify a scenario.

Kelty may be champions but before the season started it was clear to everyone that being champions only meant they qualified for a play off semi final.

Dundee Utd, Raith etc were clearly playing for automatic promotion if they won their league.

All Kelty have done is qualify for a play off semi, the same as for example Cowden in L2. All play offs are cancelled so Kelty, as Cowden, Inverness, Falkirk and many more miss out on the play offs. 
Dont think for a second Kelty are the only ones who were trying really hard to get promoted via a play off and have lost the opportunity. 
 

Edited May 8, 2020 by big al

[BS7]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The problem with looking at one specific rule is you can find another that contradicts it. Especially considering the circumstances. Under the rules its the SPFL that states the dates of the pyramid playoffs. Which it did at the start of the season. 25th April & 2nd May for HL v LL. 10th May & 16th May for Club 42 v. HL/LL winner.

Under the lockdown there's no football being played.

You can argue that with everyone ending their seasons, matches haven't been postponed, they've been abandoned. In which case under Rule HH the SPFL can do whatever they want.

If the matches haven’t started, they haven’t been abandoned. 

[steviegee89]

All play offs cancelled? So what’s the diff from that and finishing the Scottish cup which they will do?

[craigkillie]

All play offs cancelled? So what’s the diff from that and finishing the Scottish cup which they will do?

The Scottish Cup games can be played any time during next season, the play-offs can't.