Im_Rodger Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Personally I think the most likely outcome would be: 14-10-10-10 Scottish Premiership with a 6:8 split with 14th down and 13th in a play off. Aberdeen Celtic Dundee United Hamilton Academical Heart of Midlothian Hibernian Inverness Caledonian Thistle Kilmarnock Livingston Motherwell Rangers Ross County St. Johnstone St Mirren Scottish Championship. Alloa Athletic Arbroath Ayr United Dundee Dunfermline Athletic Falkirk Greenock Morton Partick Thistle Queen of the South Raith Rovers Scottish League 1. Airdrieonians Clyde Cove Rangers Dumbarton East Fife Edinburgh City Forfar Athletic Montrose Peterhead Stranraer Scottish League 2 Albion Rovers Annan Athletic Brechin City Brora Rangers Cowdenbeath Elgin City Kelty Hearts Queens Park Stenhousemuir Stirling Albion Not an original idea but it works far better than any other proposal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Direct comparisons between an 18 team league in the 1960s and a new form are ridiculous: bear in mind this was an era in which 'straight up, straight down' promotion and relegation was taken as a Gospel truth and European qualification was based a lot more on cup success than league placings. You could have an 18 team league with extensive play-offs for European spots as well as relegation that would keep the number of dead rubber games to a healthy level. Despite all the standard assumptions in Scottish football, that number does not actually equal 'as close to zero as possible'. There is a benefit in having a relatively stable mid-table that allows clubs to do some long term planning for a change. It also opens more opportunities for younger players to gain first team action in the closing weeks of the season and reduces the need for clubs to throw money at 'experienced campaigners' - disinterested, mercenary journeymen - during the January transfer window. An 18 team league(s) is highly unlikely to be the next step but it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as a future model based on what happened in an entirely irrelevant bygone era. I’m not sure I’m in favour of an 18 team league, however I agree with what you’re saying as the same points applies to my preference of a 16 team league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, bennett said: Hibs are a side who I'd have thought would thrive in a larger league. Sure they have a few cloggers but they mostly like to play football but each to their own. Killie v sheep was used as it will forever haunt my memories. In nearly two seasons under Steve Clarke, Killie lost exactly one game to sides outside the top six (Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts both seasons) - that was a 1-0 loss away to Livingston. In a bigger league, we would have swatted aside the various extra pieces of lower league dross that were chucked in front of us too, and would probably have finished even more comfortably in third. The style of football we played, which only the bitter fans of big clubs we consistently beat (eg Rangers) thought was boring, was nothing to do with fear, and everything to do with the fact that it helped us win games. We would have won more games playing exactly the same way in a bigger league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with the current set-up. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zing. Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Budge again pushing a temporary reconstruction in an interview with her favourite BBC journalist Tom English. “TE: You want a quick fix? AB; I do, to reflect a completely abnormal situation. Let's put something in place that will address that instead of trying to find a solution to a problem that many people have been looking at for 10 years. I don't want to go there.” So she’s after a short term change to save her own skin instead of trying to actually make a meaningful change to the game in Scotland. f**k that. Don’t see many backing it if it’s only for one or two seasons. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, jagfox99 said: I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with the current set-up. I don't see there being much difference with a 14 team league, which could have the main advantage of an even number based split with slightly more diversity. I quite like the split as a concept. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 For some reason in an earlier reply I thought that coprolite was a hibs fan, no idea why. Just realised he's an Aberdeen fan. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, craigkillie said: In nearly two seasons under Steve Clarke, Killie lost exactly one game to sides outside the top six (Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts both seasons) - that was a 1-0 loss away to Livingston. In a bigger league, we would have swatted aside the various extra pieces of lower league dross that were chucked in front of us too, and would probably have finished even more comfortably in third. The style of football we played, which only the bitter fans of big clubs we consistently beat (eg Rangers) thought was boring, was nothing to do with fear, and everything to do with the fact that it helped us win games. We would have won more games playing exactly the same way in a bigger league. Yeah always find it amusing reading the 'playing football in the right manner' patter, as if there is only one way to play football, and that you have to play it expansively so teams with an advantage of having a bigger budget to spend on better quality players, can roll over you. Tactics seem to be lost on people of that way of thinking (until they come up against teams with bigger budgets). Teams can play whatever way they want, to get the results they are after. Ironic too, when those exact same managers employ those same tactics they are having a go at, when their team plays in Europe, against a team with a far superior budget to them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, coprolite said: I don't see there being much difference with a 14 team league, which could have the main advantage of an even number based split with slightly more diversity. I quite like the split as a concept. Yup, the split is fine and keeps things interesting for most clubs. If 14 teams split would be best as 6/8 for me but I don't see the need for 14 teams in the top flight. Playoffs add a positive dimension as well. Reconstruction for reconstruction's sake will not save Scottish football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zing. said: Budge again pushing a temporary reconstruction in an interview with her favourite BBC journalist Tom English. “TE: You want a quick fix? AB; I do, to reflect a completely abnormal situation. Let's put something in place that will address that instead of trying to find a solution to a problem that many people have been looking at for 10 years. I don't want to go there.” So she’s after a short term change to save her own skin instead of trying to actually make a meaningful change to the game in Scotland. f**k that. Don’t see many backing it if it’s only for one or two seasons. She's actually doubling down on her idiocy here. All it's going to do is piss off several clubs in the top flight. Her chances on this proposal passing with the favour of 11 clubs, given her recent 'charm offensive' is exactly fucking zero. If she'd returned with a bit of humility and the admission that she'd opened her mouth and let her belly rumble with regards to this fucking stupid temporary measure and be willing to find a negotiable solution, clubs might be more onside as well. I also agree with VT's post further up this page. Reconstruction should most certainly not be hurried through to suit exactly one club. Reconstruction is the way ahead I'm sure most folk agree but in it's current proposed guise, Hearts would literally be the only beneficiary of reconstruction being applied after the fact. It should be rolled out there as an incentive at the end of the season ahead, not the one we're still currently in. Budge is currently loudly complaining about it not being fair to change the rules part way through a season as it negatively affects Hearts without a shred of irony or self-awareness that she is aggressively pursuing a change to the rules part way through the season to benefit her club. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Yeah always find it amusing reading the 'playing football in the right manner' patter, as if there is only one way to play football, and that you have to play it expansively so teams with an advantage of having a bigger budget to spend on better quality players, can roll over you. Tactics seem to be lost on people of that way of thinking (until they come up against teams with bigger budgets). Teams can play whatever way they want, to get the results they are after. Ironic too, when those exact same managers employ those same tactics they are having a go at, when their team plays in Europe, against a team with a far superior budget to them. Kilmarnock's recent attempt at qualifying for Europe saw them being completely outplayed by some Welsh team. Bringing eternal shame to Scotland. Sevco had a decent European run (by Scottish standards) and got some great results against some good teams by playing football. Playing football is beneficial to us all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bennett said: Kilmarnock's recent attempt at qualifying for Europe saw them being completely outplayed by some Welsh team. Bringing eternal shame to Scotland. Sevco had a decent European run (by Scottish standards) and got some great results against some good teams by playing football. Playing football is beneficial to us all. The original club that eventually spawned Sevco also 0-0 shitfested their way to a European final. Good footballing teams are sometimes successful, shit footballing teams are sometimes successful. Shouldn't really be a revelation at this point yet here we are. Edited April 18, 2020 by djchapsticks 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, bennett said: Kilmarnock's recent attempt at qualifying for Europe saw them being completely outplayed by some Welsh team. Bringing eternal shame to Scotland. Sevco had a decent European run (by Scottish standards) and got some great results against some good teams by playing football. Playing football is beneficial to us all. Rangers got to a European Final by playing Wattinaccio. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, bennett said: Kilmarnock's recent attempt at qualifying for Europe saw them being completely outplayed by some Welsh team. Bringing eternal shame to Scotland. Did you watch the games, aye? If anything they did to us what we did to Rangers several times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, bennett said: Kilmarnock's recent attempt at qualifying for Europe saw them being completely outplayed by some Welsh team. Bringing eternal shame to Scotland. Sevco had a decent European run (by Scottish standards) and got some great results against some good teams by playing football. Playing football is beneficial to us all. Wales > Luxembourg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Is there any point in listening to Budge's interview. English can be a bit too earnest at times but I'd hope he'd rip her argument to shreds, however I'm not sure if I want to listen to 20 minutes (or whatever) of him metaphorically sitting on his hands. 3 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: The original club that eventually spawned Sevco also 0-0 shitfested their way to a European final. Well said, the whole "they park the bus and are so negative" is a laughable accusation coming from fans who cheered on Walter Smith's team in Europe. They would use things like determined. honest and compact when playing the elites of Europe, yet come up against a well drilled "provincial" side and suddenly it's all about being negative, fear of getting beaten and lacking in class. Stunning myopia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, jagfox99 said: Rangers got to a European Final by playing Wattinaccio. And got slaughtered for it, Scottish newspapers running with headlines of anti fitba and bus parking. Thankfully we have went back to playing the beautiful game as it was meant to be played. 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: Did you watch the games, aye? If anything they did to us what we did to Rangers several times. The rugby park one, yes. When it came to playing football the kilmarnock players looked dumbfounded as the silky Welsh weaved past them. Kilmarnock players even a hounded a manager who tried to culture them in the beautiful game, rather than just running around booting opponents. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, bennett said: For some reason in an earlier reply I thought that coprolite was a hibs fan, no idea why. Just realised he's an Aberdeen fan. Libel, that is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ric said: Is there any point in listening to Budge's interview. English can be a bit too earnest at times but I'd hope he'd rip her argument to shreds, however I'm not sure if I want to listen to 20 minutes (or whatever) of him metaphorically sitting on his hands. He did fail to ask her a question along the lines of, "Do you think league reconstruction would have been attempted to be pushed through if St.Mirren/Hamilton/Ross County were currently bottom of the league?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4mmy31 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, bennett said: Kilmarnock players even a hounded a manager who tried to culture them in the beautiful game, rather than just running around booting opponents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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