Masks

[Bairnardo]

19 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I don't agree with this post.  The science says that it's likely that masks offer some protection.  I posted earlier in the Covid thread that when it comes to something like this then you have to balance several considerations.  It would take months or even years to run properly conclusive trials on the effectiveness of masks at preventing Covid infection but the evidence we have now shows that it probably does have some form of benefit.  More importantly, the potential downsides are low - the worst case, really, is that it doesn't give you any additional protectrion but if you are only leaving the house for esential goods then you'd be leaving the house anyway so the overall affect is zero rather than making you more at risk.  So wearing them has no harms and probably offers some benefits.

Regarding your point about lesser social distancing discipline there is actually ample scientific data about this field as it's something that has been discussed for decades - the effect of increasing safety on people's behaviour.  Back when seatbelts were made compulsory one of the arguments made against it was that drivers would pay less attention to driving carefully if they felt safer, some people make the same arguments today about bike helmets etc.  The evidence shows that when additional safety measures are applied people do NOT become less safety concious.  If you think that people are already following social distancing then they'll continue to follow it while wearing masks.  If they aren't then they won't follow it wearing masks or not.   

I think it stands to reason even without science that a mask would offer SOME protection.

My issue here is only really with places using it to circumvent the lockdown ie businesses that have otherwise had to stay closed, and picking on folk who choose to wear masks when they remain non mandatory. 

Masks do not offer up enough protection to open a business that couldnt already be operated safely under current restrictions and I think that will happen

 

[parsforlife]

19 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I think it stands to reason even without science that a mask would offer SOME protection.

My issue here is only really with places using it to circumvent the lockdown ie businesses that have otherwise had to stay closed, and picking on folk who choose to wear masks when they remain non mandatory. 

Masks do not offer up enough protection to open a business that couldnt already be operated safely under current restrictions and I think that will happen

 

It’s not just businesses. A lot of people will see masks as an alternative to social distancing and other precautions rather than additional.  

How likely are we to have ‘but ave got a mask on’?  

Same as some think that as long as they follow social distancing they are not doing anything wrong by visiting pals or sitting about parks.  I don’t think it’s fully recognised that different precautions have different effectiveness.  

Edited May 1, 2020 by parsforlife

[ICTChris]

15 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I think it stands to reason even without science that a mask would offer SOME protection.

My issue here is only really with places using it to circumvent the lockdown ie businesses that have otherwise had to stay closed, and picking on folk who choose to wear masks when they remain non mandatory. 

Masks do not offer up enough protection to open a business that couldnt already be operated safely under current restrictions and I think that will happen

I haven't heard any case where someone has said they want to open up a business because mask wearing makes things safer.  I think that is highly unlikely to happen, given the advice given by the Scottish and UK Governments, who have both offered very qualified support for masks / face covering and they've done it in the context of people being out in public with no possible relaxation of the social distancing guidelines specifically related to masks.

[Granny Danger]

33 minutes ago, sjc said:

 

Whilst I obviously agree with theses sentiments, it has to be said that masks offer little in the way of protection to the wearer. They offer far more in terms of preventing the spread of the virus FROM the wearer.

So if people have to wear them in public, for example buses and supermarkets, the effect is still the same - minimising the spread.

[sjc]

8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So if people have to wear them in public, for example buses and supermarkets, the effect is still the same - minimising the spread.

Yes but in reverse of what the general consensus of the belief of what wearing a mask is for. ie - prevention of spread rather than protection from catching.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, sjc said:

Yes but in reverse of what the general consensus of the belief of what wearing a mask is for. ie - prevention of spread rather than protection from catching.

 

I understand that, what I’m saying is that the end effect is the same.  I also think it wouldn’t reduce the motivation amongst ‘caring’ wearers and ‘less interested’ non-wearers.

[eez-eh]

I wouldn’t mind wearing one while going shopping or whatever but I’ve no idea how most people can be expected to get their hands on one especially when even the hospitals are struggling to get enough.

f**k paying £10 for a flimsy face mask off eBay that will probably fall to pieces after one use.

[sjc]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

I understand that, what I’m saying is that the end effect is the same.  I also think it wouldn’t reduce the motivation amongst ‘caring’ wearers and ‘less interested’ non-wearers.

I agree. It's hard to change a culture that isn't used to wearing something like a mask. The dry winters here already make people more liable to wear masks for the benefit of keeping their throats dry, so in a pandemic, it's almost second nature. The UK is a different kettle of fish though. If people there won't wear one now, I guess they never will.

[Bairnardo]

21 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I haven't heard any case where someone has said they want to open up a business because mask wearing makes things safer.  I think that is highly unlikely to happen, given the advice given by the Scottish and UK Governments, who have both offered very qualified support for masks / face covering and they've done it in the context of people being out in public with no possible relaxation of the social distancing guidelines specifically related to masks.

I havent either but I think it will come was what I was saying. Dont underestimate either the desperation or the opportunism of business owners.  I like Sturgeon, and I think scotgov are doing fairly well but someone posted about the mask thing being mibbe aye mibbe naw type advice and that's how I see it. 

I genuinely have no intention of procuring a mask until told that mask wearing is the official advice or mandatory. This is because I am already following official advice/mandatory restrictions which have taken us through and past the peak of a highly contagious virus. 

If mask wearing is the next phase, fine. Make it mandatory and offer provision of masks. 

[Honest Saints Fan]

Started wearing one in January. Bunch of copycats following my lead. 

[19QOS19]

I won't be a sheep with a daft mask. I'm getting a cape, Bela Lugosi style.

[CountyFan]

There is no evidence that they are helpful in the wider population. 

Anyone currently using a mask is taking crucial, scarce PPE away from those who actually need it. 

[sjc]

3 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

There is no evidence that they are helpful in the wider population. 

Anyone currently using a mask is taking crucial, scarce PPE away from those who actually need it. 

Does that include people deemed high risk?

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

There is no evidence that they are helpful in the wider population. 

Anyone currently using a mask is taking crucial, scarce PPE away from those who actually need it. 

If it's mandatory for anyone in a hospital, why wouldn't even a homemade one be of benefit on a crowded bus or train?

[CountyFan]

Just now, sjc said:

Does that include people deemed high risk?

No, but those people ought to be shielding at home as far as possible. 

Obviously there are folk on the thread in different countries at different stages of this. But as of now, in the UK, my post is factually correct. 

If you follow the social distancing guidelines in respect of shielding yourself if you are vulnerable, only going out if it is genuinely essential, remaining 2 metres away from other people and washing your hands frequently, a mask is redundant. 

[CountyFan]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

If it's mandatory for anyone in a hospital, why wouldn't even a homemade one be of benefit on a crowded bus or train?

Are you intending on doing any aerosol generating medical procedures on the train? 

[D.A.F.C]

Unfortunately this country has a minority of arseholes who will think sneaking on a mask now and again will mean they are safe and will start being anti social again.

If we were as well behaved as japan or Korea then it would work. Has anyone actually worn a mask all day?

I wore one at work a few years back and even after a few hours it was wrecked.

Will wear one if I have to but wont be using it for more than a day without binning

[welshbairn]

Just now, CountyFan said:

Are you intending on doing any aerosol generating medical procedures on the train? 

95% plus of hospital space aren't doing that either, but everyone has to put one on as soon as they arrive because humans generate their own aerosols.

[Granny Danger]

39 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

I won't be a sheep with a daft mask. I'm getting a cape, Bela Lugosi style.

Bela Lugosi?  You’re more like Bella Emburg.

[sjc]

2 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

No, but those people ought to be shielding at home as far as possible. 

Obviously there are folk on the thread in different countries at different stages of this. But as of now, in the UK, my post is factually correct. 

If you follow the social distancing guidelines in respect of shielding yourself if you are vulnerable, only going out if it is genuinely essential, remaining 2 metres away from other people and washing your hands frequently, a mask is redundant. 

It's not really, as Japan's figures will testify. (A Country with double the UK's population and a far higher density)

I get your point about staying in unless absolutely necessary though but nobody can do this indefinitely, ie food shopping or hospital visits etc.