Closed Doors Live Streaming.

[Rob1885]

Aye, if mothballing was feasible it would have been done I'm sure.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, Rob1885 said:

Aye, if mothballing was feasible it would have been done I'm sure.

Of course it was feasible. Certainly at the time of the initial vote. Clubs didn't want to do it (or at least a significant majority didn't want to and the rest were left having to follow suit or vote themselves into relegation).

It's probably not feasible now. Or at least doing so would cost about as much as playing would.

[TxRover]

There’s a boatload of issues that make any comparison impossible.

Closed Games:

Pros: No or minimal costs for stewarding, no costs for hospitality, no or minimal costs for policing, etc.

Cons: No revenue from gates, hospitality, food and drink, program sales (at park), etc.

Offsets: Revenue from PPV streams, programs by mail subscription, and such.

 

The thorn in the reduced costs aspect is that those are jobs, often volunteer, but sometimes paid, that the teams would prefer to not be seen cutting. Most teams are trying to be good neighbors and part of the fabric of the town, but saving money by cutting positions is never a popular look.

Until, as SD says, the projections and actual numbers are revealed on Premiership PPV takeup, it’s impossible to hazard a guess on if the teams have any shot at making this season viable in any meaningful way. I would hope that the data has been shared within the SPFL. If PPV uptake was even 25% of PATG  numbers (at least after the first couple of games), I’d be amazed...and that’s likely going to be somewhere between 15% and 20% of normal PATG ticket revenue.

Taking that for Raith last year (poor comparison, but the best I have), that would mean that they are getting around 65% of last year’s gate revenue (ST were about half attendance numbers) and exactly zero additional revenue. Gate revenues are reportedly about 42% of lower level club income, so that’s already at least a 15% hole in revenues without considering that fans may well have less money to spend anyway.

Edited September 28, 2020 by TxRover

[Guest Flash]

I see Arbroath’s home game with Hearts is on tv so that’ll will reduce their streaming numbers. 20 games on BBC this season, so that could be 20 games where the streaming income is goosed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54300493

 

[true_rover]

I see Arbroath’s home game with Hearts is on tv so that’ll will reduce their streaming numbers. 20 games on BBC this season, so that could be 20 games where the streaming income is goosed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54300493
 

I would expect a lot of those games to feature Hearts away as well, cutting the biggest potential intake from away fans for most teams.

[Jamie_M]

35 minutes ago, true_rover said:

1 hour ago, Flash said:

I see Arbroath’s home game with Hearts is on tv so that’ll will reduce their streaming numbers. 20 games on BBC this season, so that could be 20 games where the streaming income is goosed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54300493
 

I would expect a lot of those games to feature Hearts away as well, cutting the biggest potential intake from away fans for most teams.

Nah, they are boycotting all our clubs, remember?

[TxRover]

7 hours ago, Flash said:

I see Arbroath’s home game with Hearts is on tv so that’ll will reduce their streaming numbers. 20 games on BBC this season, so that could be 20 games where the streaming income is goosed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54300493

 

I assume that TV games provide no revenue to the home (or away) club then?

Wondering if a TV game would still allow ST holders to stream the match, if covered by the local crew? I could see circumstances where a stream might be available but a TV signal might not be.

Edited September 28, 2020 by TxRover

[RiG]

14 hours ago, Flash said:

I see Arbroath’s home game with Hearts is on tv so that’ll will reduce their streaming numbers. 20 games on BBC this season, so that could be 20 games where the streaming income is goosed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54300493

 

Leanne Crichton. FFS.

Edited September 29, 2020 by RiG

[Jamie_M]

9 hours ago, TxRover said:

I assume that TV games provide no revenue to the home (or away) club then?

Wondering if a TV game would still allow ST holders to stream the match, if covered by the local crew? I could see circumstances where a stream might be available but a TV signal might not be.

Well, certainly for the cup games, any screened on premier Sports are not allowed to be streamed 

[Skyline Drifter]

10 hours ago, TxRover said:

I assume that TV games provide no revenue to the home (or away) club then?

Wondering if a TV game would still allow ST holders to stream the match, if covered by the local crew? I could see circumstances where a stream might be available but a TV signal might not be.

TV games (in the League) provide no direct revenue to the the home (or away) club. Money goes in the prize pot for the League.

I believe clubs can still stream to season ticket holders if the game is live although frankly I'd assume most would rather watch a free of charge multi camera BBC set up than their own club's stream even if it does have Leanne Crichton on it. I'm not sure clubs will actually bother doing it if it's live on the BBC. They won't be allowed to sell PPV for a live game though so you're income is screwed. As someone said earlier, that's largely likely to be the Hearts games and certainly not likely to be the lower away support games. The BBC are not allowed to visit any ground more than twice though I believe.

[BIGdavieT]

Its not too surprising that the PPV uptake is high so far in the premier league. I think most people's concerns are that the novelty will wear off and those numbers won't be maintained...

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

TV games (in the League) provide no direct revenue to the the home (or away) club. Money goes in the prize pot for the League.

That what I thought, thanks.

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I believe clubs can still stream to season ticket holders if the game is live although frankly I'd assume most would rather watch a free of charge multi camera BBC set up than their own club's stream even if it does have Leanne Crichton on it. I'm not sure clubs will actually bother doing it if it's live on the BBC. They won't be allowed to sell PPV for a live game though so you're income is screwed. As someone said earlier, that's largely likely to be the Hearts games and certainly not likely to be the lower away support games. The BBC are not allowed to visit any ground more than twice though I believe.

That’s where I’m a little fuzzy. There will be some people (domestically) unable to receive the TV broadcast for various reasons, so this deal precludes the club from transmitting a video signal to those fans, or would they be only allowed an audio stream? I guess then international fans will be limited to audio only too?

If the limit is twice per ground, every Hearts away game is a likely TV match, cratering any of those PPV windfall hopes. I’d expect Hearts v Dundee in March to be the other game at Tynecastle...and this might also explains why Hearts were a bit more coy on the PPV setup, they knew this was coming.

[honestly united]

Just on the question of hospitality what is to stop clubs selling packages for lunch as every other restaurant is, and let guests sit at their seats in hospitality and "admire the view out the window" while the game is on?

in essence they are not charging admission to the game, just £25 for a cheese toastie and a cup of tea and a seat for a couple of hours?

[Homer Thompson]

45 minutes ago, TxRover said:

That what I thought, thanks.

That’s where I’m a little fuzzy. There will be some people (domestically) unable to receive the TV broadcast for various reasons, so this deal precludes the club from transmitting a video signal to those fans, or would they be only allowed an audio stream? I guess then international fans will be limited to audio only too?

If the limit is twice per ground, every Hearts away game is a likely TV match, cratering any of those PPV windfall hopes. I’d expect Hearts v Dundee in March to be the other game at Tynecastle...and this might also explains why Hearts were a bit more coy on the PPV setup, they knew this was coming.

Anyone, domestically, who could watch an online stream from the club can watch an online stream from the BBC - unless they dont have a tv license.

As far as I know, international fans would still be able to purchase a video stream for televised games

44 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Just on the question of hospitality what is to stop clubs selling packages for lunch as every other restaurant is, and let guests sit at their seats in hospitality and "admire the view out the window" while the game is on?

in essence they are not charging admission to the game, just £25 for a cheese toastie and a cup of tea and a seat for a couple of hours?

Technically, probably nothing. How many clubs in the Championship have hospitality suites with a view of the pitch though? Dunfermline? Does Ayrs new building? Hearts? Cant think of any others off the top of my head

[TxRover]

27 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Anyone, domestically, who could watch an online stream from the club can watch an online stream from the BBC - unless they dont have a tv license.

As far as I know, international fans would still be able to purchase a video stream for televised games

Technically, probably nothing. How many clubs in the Championship have hospitality suites with a view of the pitch though? Dunfermline? Does Ayrs new building? Hearts? Cant think of any others off the top of my head

That makes sense on the stream vs TV issue, thanks, I wasn’t sure the technical setup.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

That’s where I’m a little fuzzy. There will be some people (domestically) unable to receive the TV broadcast for various reasons, so this deal precludes the club from transmitting a video signal to those fans, or would they be only allowed an audio stream? I guess then international fans will be limited to audio only too?

If the limit is twice per ground, every Hearts away game is a likely TV match, cratering any of those PPV windfall hopes. I’d expect Hearts v Dundee in March to be the other game at Tynecastle...and this might also explains why Hearts were a bit more coy on the PPV setup, they knew this was coming.

Who can't receive a tv broadcast but can receive a digital stream? The BBC broadcast their games on iplayer. International streaming has always been allowed. Nothing has changed. Whether it's worth their while doing it if that's all they are doing is another question for the clubs to answer individually.

I'm not sure what anyone "knew was coming"? Nothing's changed here. That was always the case. You were never going to be allowed to stream tv selection games on PPV. The Premiership clubs haven't been either.

I think the BBC deal is 20 games. I imagine they will mostly feature Hearts of course but they won't all.

1 hour ago, honestly united said:

Just on the question of hospitality what is to stop clubs selling packages for lunch as every other restaurant is, and let guests sit at their seats in hospitality and "admire the view out the window" while the game is on?

in essence they are not charging admission to the game, just £25 for a cheese toastie and a cup of tea and a seat for a couple of hours?

It will be a breach of regulations. Either they are entering the ground (which isn't allowed) or they are watching from a window where they can dine and eat which also isn't allowed. Depending on the hospitality area and whether it has windows overlooking a pitch of course. Ours doesn't.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Parttimesupporter]

36 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Who can't receive a tv broadcast but can receive a digital stream? The BBC broadcast their games on iplayer. International streaming has always been allowed. Nothing has changed. Whether it's worth their while doing it if that's all they are doing is another question for the clubs to answer individually.

I'm not sure what anyone "knew was coming"? Nothing's changed here. That was always the case. You were never going to be allowed to stream tv selection games on PPV. The Premiership clubs haven't been either.

I think the BBC deal is 20 games. I imagine they will mostly feature Hearts of course but they won't all.

It will be a breach of regulations. Either they are entering the ground (which isn't allowed) or they are watching from a window where they can dine and eat which also isn't allowed. Depending on the hospitality area and whether it has windows overlooking a pitch of course. Ours doesn't.

I believe it is quite common for 'youngsters' to opt out of having a TV licence and pay for Netflix or the likes instead.  If you opt out of a TV licence you have to undertake not to view i-player, and will be subject to the same fine as for viewing an unlicensed TV if caught.

[Skyline Drifter]

8 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said:

I believe it is quite common for 'youngsters' to opt out of having a TV licence and pay for Netflix or the likes instead.  If you opt out of a TV licence you have to undertake not to view i-player, and will be subject to the same fine as for viewing an unlicensed TV if caught.

Fair enough. Those people may also have to cope with not getting a live stream of their club's live tv home games then. I expect they'll get over it.

[DA Baracus]

4 hours ago, honestly united said:

Just on the question of hospitality what is to stop clubs selling packages for lunch as every other restaurant is, and let guests sit at their seats in hospitality and "admire the view out the window" while the game is on?

in essence they are not charging admission to the game, just £25 for a cheese toastie and a cup of tea and a seat for a couple of hours?

It wouldn't be worth it. The profits would be minimal after you take in to account the costs to open up and run such areas, which would have to adhere to social distancing regulations.

2 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

I believe it is quite common for 'youngsters' to opt out of having a TV licence and pay for Netflix or the likes instead.  If you opt out of a TV licence you have to undertake not to view i-player, and will be subject to the same fine as for viewing an unlicensed TV if caught.

But you almost certainly won't get caught. 

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Who can't receive a tv broadcast but can receive a digital stream? The BBC broadcast their games on iplayer. International streaming has always been allowed. Nothing has changed.

I'm not sure what anyone "knew was coming"? Nothing's changed here. That was always the case. You were never going to be allowed to stream tv selection games on PPV. The Premiership clubs haven't been either.

I think the BBC deal is 20 games. I imagine they will mostly feature Hearts of course but they won't all.

Fair enough on iPlayer, I’ve never really futzed with it that much. Just wondering if Hearts had been given an inkling their games would be heavily in the rotation on BBC Scotland, but thinking about it, that was a given.

4 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

I believe it is quite common for 'youngsters' to opt out of having a TV licence and pay for Netflix or the likes instead.  If you opt out of a TV licence you have to undertake not to view i-player, and will be subject to the same fine as for viewing an unlicensed TV if caught.

Hadn’t considered that, but a fair point. Is a PPV stream watchable (legally) without a TV license on a monitor or device?