George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

What is it with people on here? I'm perfectly polite, and willing to have a reasonable debate, but I'm met with abuse. 

So your point is that it is a question of numbers and generations? I'm quite sure there must be a few thousand Britons living in a city as large as Rome, and I would imagine there might be many thousands of people from other territories that were subjugated and oppressed by the Romans. But for argument's sake, suppose 10,000 Britons moved to Rome and established a community there. After a couple of generations, would it be legitimate for the descendants of those British children to demand the removal of statues commemorating Roman Emperors who enslaved their ancestors? 

Excellent point, however you'll just be branded a racist and attacked by the majority of the forum.

As I said in previous posts, you could go on forever making unsavoury links between virtually every figure from History where their actions while doing good for many most definitely had either a direct or indirect negative result for others.

The bottom line is that every civilisation throughout history has committed atrocities from the Vikings to the Moors, Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Prussians, British, Americans, Russians, French, Spanish, Portuguese etc, etc, etc.

Should we just erase all positive statements about all these regimes from every period of history ??

Tear up celebrated stories and journals ?

Destroy and tear down memorials and statues ?

Ensure that there's no positive references in song or poem ?

Change our whole beliefs to satisfy a few extremists ???

Nope, not for me I'm afraid and anyone who does think this is very dangerous and should be locked up in my opinion.

 

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Apparently, some wee vegetarian guy with a funny moustache started a massive war which killed lots of innocent people. I don't know his name though as the snowflake left won't let us have a statue of him.

If Germany had won that war then a century later you'd have people on Pilsner and Strudel arguing that the intolerant left were ignoring that Hitler spent billions on German hospitals and schools from the Rhine to the Volga when they pulled a statue down in East Prussia.

[Sinner-to-Saint]

8 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

He's right though. That monstrosity you've got in your signature marks you out as an idiot before we even read a word of your posts.

Now that's hurtful! It took me a wee while to make that.

Oh well, I've been overwhelmed by the number of vitriolic replies on here, and I'm going to bail out. I'm supposed to be working anyway. I'll leave you all to discuss how to bring down the oppressive. fascist, patriarchy. 

[Bully Wee Villa]

I've changed the thread title as it doesn't seem to be about "Minnesota" or just "riots", either. 

[NotThePars]

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

Now that's hurtful! It took me a wee while to make that.

I certainly hope your day job isn't a graphic designer.

[oneteaminglasgow]

I’m still struggling to work out how “the slave trade was/is bad and we shouldn’t commemorate the people who perpetrated it” is an extremist position.

[Wee-Bey]

We sure it's Jeremiah Cole ? More than a hint of Swampy or banana imo.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

We sure it's Jeremiah Cole ? More than a hint of Swampy or banana imo.

Posts are too short for Swampy and not enough/insufficient forward slashes for banana.

[NotThePars]

11 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I’m still struggling to work out how “the slave trade was/is bad and we shouldn’t commemorate the people who perpetrated it” is an extremist position.

You're ignoring that literally everyone until about 20 years ago owned slaves, nobody knew any better.

[Wee-Bey]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Posts are too short for Swampy and not enough/insufficient forward slashes for banana.

You're probably right. There's been no mention of feminazis yet which would also rule out banana.

[Stellaboz]

If Germany had won that war then a century later you'd have people on Pilsner and Strudel arguing that the intolerant left were ignoring that Hitler spent billions on German hospitals and schools from the Rhine to the Volga when they pulled a statue down in East Prussia.

Can't beat a good Strudel washed down with Pilsner.

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

You're ignoring that literally everyone until about 20 years ago owned slaves, nobody knew any better.

They still do in Ayrshire.

[Jacksgranda]

47 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

Are you really comparing a statue of some nobody who 90% of people walk past without knowing or caring who it is, to Auschwitz?

And really if we’re talking equivalents you’d be looking at a statue of Hitler or Höss in the middle of Tel Aviv. Just, you know, so they could learn from it.

 

They wouldn't learn very much if 90% of those walking past didn't know who he was.

[Jacksgranda]

45 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Oh, dear - total minter for me. I honestly read that as "Obama". That'll teach me to be carrying out two concurrent online conversations. Please accept that my opinion of yer man Bin laden is that he was a spoilt wee rich kid who, when he got the Sky Fairy bug, had the resources to elevate his cúntry to a much higher level.

I understand where you're coming from with the reference to Auschwitz, to an extent. The difference, to me, is that it is not a memorial that has been erected to glorify an individual or even to glorify the government which created the conditions which made it possible - it is preserved as a reminder that we must remember how humans can treat others if left unchecked, and that we must never, ever allow such a thing to happen again. A lesson which we appear not to have learned.

I don't wish to appear hypocritical in taking issue with what a black man has to say on the subject, but perhaps Sir Geoffrey might consider that people might remember slavery if the history curriculum concentrated less on Kings, Queens and wars, and more on societal issues througout the ages.

Many of which were caused by Kings, Queens and wars,

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Statue of John Robertson on Easter Rd just to help them learn.

[NotThePars]

10 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

37 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

If Germany had won that war then a century later you'd have people on Pilsner and Strudel arguing that the intolerant left were ignoring that Hitler spent billions on German hospitals and schools from the Rhine to the Volga when they pulled a statue down in East Prussia.

Can't beat a good Strudel washed down with Pilsner.

Doner Haus can't open quickly enough IMO

[Bell™]

1 hour ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

If I was to move to Rome, would it be reasonable for me to demand that certain statues are removed? I am British and Britons were conquered and enslaved by Romans. Therefore should I object to statues glorifying the people who enslaved my ancestors? I'm merely applying the logic used by many people on here to another situation.

can you prove with any certainty that any of your antecedents were enslaved by the Romans? Because any Afro-Caribbean folk can prove that they were enslaved by British plantation quite easily. Therefore, arguing that the Italians should destroy 2,000-year-old statues because some of your ancestors might have been slaves somewhere between 1,600 and 1,900 years ago is a bit of a stretch, i'd say, and not really comparable.

[Mr Waldo]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

There is ongoing structural and institutionalised racism against black people in the UK which is a direct legacy of the racism and slavery of empire. Challenging the commemoration of those who perpetuated that colonial racism plays a part in challenging and undermining that continuing racism.

OK. Educate me.  Maybe just because of my experiences or that I don't get offended easily but I honestly think that overaall, we a welcoming, non racist country.  Obviously we have some fruit loops, but in general  we are more tolerant than almost every other country.  Am I naive?  

I am aware of the Met and Windrush but I believe it is more about class and the Oxbridge mob / House of Lords type people.  They are not simple racist, just against everyone beneath them who happen to include almost everyone from all backgrounds.   

So, what other institutions here are racist? What other countries handle racism better? 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

These days, if you erase positive statements about regimes and tear up celebrated journals and destroy statues and ensure there's no positive references in a song and change your whole beliefs to satisfy a few extremists, you get thrown in jail.

 

Anyway to be halfway serious for a moment @WATTOO most people on this planet have one of these in their brains to help them make sense of philosophical questions:

But you've got one of these:

On the contrary, I like to see all sides of things as nothing is EVER just Black or White (again, pardon the pun).

Does racism exist in the USA ? Of course it does.

Was George Floyd murdered and did he deserve to die ? Yes he was and of course he didn't.

Should we airbrush our history and remove anything which is now perceived as unsavoury ? No, I don't believe we should as people should be able to understand the context of the time and indeed how things have changed. Personally I'd see that as a positive and a very valuable lesson in the evolution of society and its views / outlook on life.