George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

So am I a Dane, an Angle, a Saxon, a Celt or a Norman, then?

Unsure, but you're certainly a self-loathing racist wee p***k.  

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

So am I a Dane, an Angle, a Saxon, a Celt or a Norman, then?

I have no idea.

I can state with some certainty, however, that you're an idiot.

[Dee Man]

I think some people are struggling with the simple concept that as society evolves then some things that may have been acceptable at a certain time are no longer appropriate in the modern world. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, coprolite said:

So people shouldn't be listened to because of the colour of their skin. 

Seriously? That's your takeaway from my post?

[Sinner-to-Saint]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

You're making a quite dreadful argument here, just FYI.

 

You need to explain how my argument's fallacious. If your contribution is just "you're wrong" then it's pretty pointless, and you should save yourself the effort.

[Shandon Par]

If binning statues is too extreme, this Italian town came up with some ideas.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/06/bolzano-italian-town-defuse-controversial-monuments 

I quite like the idea of putting a red puffa jacket on Drake's statue in London.

[Mr Waldo]

Just now, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Obama (and I'm no fanboy) has made significant personal charity donations, and the Foundation bearing his name administers hundreds of millions of dollars annually. Not a complete cúnt, I'm thinking.

As fo Auschwitz  I'm honestly not seeing the relevance here, and it raises some concerns over your thought processes. FWIW, it should remain as a reminder of what the Human Race is capable of.

Osama not c**t. "Taliban law is the only law. " We seem to have different opinions.

"Concerns about my thought process"? Wow, that started early

Sir Geoffry Palmer said that he thinks we should keep the statues as a reminder of an atrocious past.  Auschwitz is kept for the same reason.  If we don't learn from history, we repeat the same mistake.  

[Sinner-to-Saint]

2 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

I think some people are struggling with the simple concept that as society evolves then some things that may have been acceptable at a certain time are no longer appropriate in the modern world. 

Well firstly a vocal minority should not be allowed to implement change, we live in a democracy. Should we all become vegetarian or vegan because ten percent of the population find the consumption of meat objectionable. Also changes to society should not be implemented by mobs, but through democratic means.

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

You need to explain how my argument's fallacious. If your contribution is just "you're wrong" then it's pretty pointless, and you should save yourself the effort.

It really wasn't much trouble, but thank you.

Maybe you could explain how you, an individual idiot emigrating to Italy is an excellent comparison to generations of an entire demographic living in the UK.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

1 minute ago, Mr Waldo said:

Osama not c**t. "Taliban law is the only law. " We seem to have different opinions.

"Concerns about my thought process"? Wow, that started early

Sir Geoffry Palmer said that he thinks we should keep the statues as a reminder of an atrocious past.  Auschwitz is kept for the same reason.  If we don't learn from history, we repeat the same mistake.  

They could be kept in a museum, there is a slavery museum in Liverpool that is worth a visit.

[Forest_Fifer]

You need to explain how my argument's fallacious. If your contribution is just "you're wrong" then it's pretty pointless, and you should save yourself the effort.

Your argument (and Rome analogy) seems to be that most if not all of the statue protesters have chosen to come to Britain recently purely to protest about some statues. When asked how many of them there are, you were unable to provide figures.

[Dunning1874]

1 minute ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

See my reply to Bairnardo. If I were to move to Rome, would it be reasonable for me to demand the removal of statues commemorating Roman emperors who oversaw the colonisation of foreign lands and enslavement of the inhabitants of those lands? If not, why not?

There is ongoing structural and institutionalised racism against black people in the UK which is a direct legacy of the racism and slavery of empire. Challenging the commemoration of those who perpetuated that colonial racism plays a part in challenging and undermining that continuing racism.

There is no enduring discrimination against British people in Italy as a result of the actions of the Roman empire. The fall of Roman Empire in Western Europe also happened over 1500 years ago, whereas there are BAME people living in Britain today whose nations of birth only gained independence in their lifetime.

Absolutely loving the concept that a white British person choosing to move to Italy in the 21st century is in anyway going to be a suitable basis for comparison to black Caribbeans or Africans moving to the UK in the mid 20th century. Mind two years ago when the Italian government misplaced a load of documents and decided to illegally deport British born people who'd lived in Italy for decades?

[Sinner-to-Saint]

10 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I have no idea.

I can state with some certainty, however, that you're an idiot.

Oh dear. Ad hominem. It's very easy to call people names when you're sitting safely behind your keyboard in Yorkshire. If that's your level of debate then you're going on ignore.

[Forest_Fifer]

Osama not c**t. "Taliban law is the only law. " We seem to have different opinions.
"Concerns about my thought process"? Wow, that started early
Sir Geoffry Palmer said that he thinks we should keep the statues as a reminder of an atrocious past.  Auschwitz is kept for the same reason.  If we don't learn from history, we repeat the same mistake.  

The local council and various groups have tried to put a new plaque up by the Colston statue for ages, explaining his part in the slave trade and how he raised his money. The local gammons always managed to delay this. If this had been done, the statue might still be there.

[Paco]

Sir Geoffry Palmer said that he thinks we should keep the statues as a reminder of an atrocious past.  Auschwitz is kept for the same reason.  If we don't learn from history, we repeat the same mistake.  

Are you really comparing a statue of some nobody who 90% of people walk past without knowing or caring who it is, to Auschwitz?

And really if we’re talking equivalents you’d be looking at a statue of Hitler or Höss in the middle of Tel Aviv. Just, you know, so they could learn from it.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

We are mate. Some of them are invalid though and I'm quite happy calling someone who implies anti-racism campaigners as "the REAL racists" a fucking moron. So stick me on your ignore list if that makes you unhappy 

I hope you watched the footage of the Floyd funeral, it was turned into a circus ppv event and was nothing other than a pathetic PR stunt, I don't know about you but I've got more respect for people than that.

The disingenuous wannabe brigade would just make you sick and sadly it's started here.

I'm sorry, but you can keep your token faux outrage and your childish anarchy stunts shove them right up your arse..............

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 minutes ago, Sinner-to-Saint said:

Oh dear. Ad hominem. It's very easy to call people names when you're sitting safely behind your keyboard in Yorkshire. If that's your level of debate then you're going on ignore.

It's a perfectly fair response to your pathetic and racist trolling. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Some of us have dedicated a fair amount of time and indeed money over the years trying to break that system and move on. Unfortunately, that's apparently made us, among other things, "the real racists" in your eyes. If you're too lazy to try and change things, blame yourself for them not changing. Don't you dare sit behind your keyboard and criticise those who take action for a cause they believe in, often risking their futures and their personal safety to do so. I have never been prouder of any of my kids than when I found that my eldest had taken part in the Student Protests in 2010. She didn't make a big thing of it, but said to me a couple of days later, "Dad, it just seemed to be the right thing to do. And with so many there, I knew it was the right thing to do."

You sit there and criticise those who don't accept the status quo. I may not lead a People's Revolution, might not change a damned thing of note, but if I can say that I did what I could to leave the world a bit better for my kids and grandkids, I'll count my life well-lived.

Indeed, I wonder how many of them will end up as future Tory councilors and Mp's, that's generally the way of it.

[MONKMAN]

Who was this @Sinner-to-Saint moron, in a previous life?

He's got an aura of basement dwelling, pyjama wearing, gravity denier all over him.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

Osama not c**t. "Taliban law is the only law. " We seem to have different opinions.

"Concerns about my thought process"? Wow, that started early

Sir Geoffry Palmer said that he thinks we should keep the statues as a reminder of an atrocious past.  Auschwitz is kept for the same reason.  If we don't learn from history, we repeat the same mistake.  

Oh, dear - total minter for me. I honestly read that as "Obama". That'll teach me to be carrying out two concurrent online conversations. Please accept that my opinion of yer man Bin laden is that he was a spoilt wee rich kid who, when he got the Sky Fairy bug, had the resources to elevate his cúntry to a much higher level.

I understand where you're coming from with the reference to Auschwitz, to an extent. The difference, to me, is that it is not a memorial that has been erected to glorify an individual or even to glorify the government which created the conditions which made it possible - it is preserved as a reminder that we must remember how humans can treat others if left unchecked, and that we must never, ever allow such a thing to happen again. A lesson which we appear not to have learned.

I don't wish to appear hypocritical in taking issue with what a black man has to say on the subject, but perhaps Sir Geoffrey might consider that people might remember slavery if the history curriculum concentrated less on Kings, Queens and wars, and more on societal issues througout the ages.