George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[MSU]

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

[Dee Man]

4 minutes ago, MSU said:

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

Were you allowed to shoot them with a thin bullet?

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, MSU said:

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

Oh fūck! Is that written down anywhere, surely it's a guideline rather than a rule?

[BFTD]

Wow, I’d no idea about the nitty gritty thing. How on Earth did these phrases end up in such common use? It sounds like such an obscure origin.

Wasn’t that ‘rule of thumb’ origin a myth?

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Wow, I’d no idea about the nitty gritty thing. How on Earth did these phrases end up in such common use? It sounds like such an obscure origin.

This is from https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

I suppose it often may have a lot to do with the obvious stigma attached to racism, and the natural desire to distance ourselves from that.

Particularly now in the internet age there is an opportunity for things like this to become 'fact' as it is easily shared among large numbers of people. Once there is a perception something may be racist among a large enough group of people, then it becomes impossible to reverse this.

I thought this was quite interesting, and even the humble picnic has been thoroughly examimed in the past.

[Mr Waldo]

1 hour ago, Perkin Flump said:

The issue is in a lot of cases if 1 was a 6 & 2 was an 8, 1 is still getting the job as it stands. The pendulum needs to swing the other way for the balance to be redressed. It isn't ideal but neither is what has gone before.

And if the issue is 1 was a 6 and 2 was an 8, then that is disgraceful. But two wrongs don't  make a right. And no, I don't know what the answer is.

 

54 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

There is an issue with companies being overly careful which (at the risk of sounding like Mr Waldo and what I just criticised) plays in to the racists hands. I am all for language being moderated, statues being torn down and places renamed, but innocuous things being moderated by white owned companies with no knowledge behind what they are doing as an easy PR exercise (or as in this case, a risk mitigation exercise) needlessly gives the PC gone mad brigade extra ammo. 

That is also  partly one of my points.   I remember the hokey jokey being described as 'secterian'.  Things like this allow cretins to deflect away from the real issue. 

One of my questions/fears is at what point, and who decides, what is  'innocuous' and what is not.  And 'no' it is not obvious.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Lots of phrases might need to be dropped. "No can do" was a way of mocking Chinese people struggling to speak English.  "Long time no see" was mocking Native Americans for the same reason. To be "sold down the river" was literally to be sold down the river. Software developers are dropping the terms "master" and "slave" in their software packages. Ford have renamed their master brake cylinders and caliper pistons as "primary" cylinders and "Dae as yer telt" pistons.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

5 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Lots of phrases might need to be dropped. "No can do" was a way of mocking Chinese people struggling to speak English.  "Long time no see" was mocking Native Americans for the same reason. To be "sold down the river" was literally to be sold down the river. Software developers are dropping the terms "master" and "slave" in their software packages. Ford have renamed their master brake cylinders and caliper pistons as "primary" cylinders and "Dae as yer telt" pistons.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[Theroadlesstravelled]

1 hour ago, MSU said:

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

Does that include slapping her face with your cock?

[Wile E Coyote]

13 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

 "No can do" was a way of mocking Chinese people struggling to speak English. 

Surely that just means you don't have any tinned pigeon

[MSU]

13 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Does that include slapping her face with your cock?

By "your cock" do you mean my cock or one's cock? 

[MSU]

1 hour ago, Dee Man said:

Were you allowed to shoot them with a thin bullet?

Positively encouraged.

[MSU]

1 hour ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Wow, I’d no idea about the nitty gritty thing. How on Earth did these phrases end up in such common use? It sounds like such an obscure origin.

Wasn’t that ‘rule of thumb’ origin a myth?

I'm pretty sure I read about both in the same Times article. Not saying that makes it any more or less credible.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

This is from https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

I suppose it often may have a lot to do with the obvious stigma attached to racism, and the natural desire to distance ourselves from that.

Particularly now in the internet age there is an opportunity for things like this to become 'fact' as it is easily shared among large numbers of people. Once there is a perception something may be racist among a large enough group of people, then it becomes impossible to reverse this.

I thought this was quite interesting, and even the humble picnic has been thoroughly examimed in the past.

Reading that it appears that the phrase "nitty gritty" didn't appear until well into the 20th century - it's unlikely by that point there was any new terminology being coined pertaining to the transatlantic slave trade so chances are it's innocuous.

Sounds similar to the case of the American politician that got their arse handed to them a few years back for using the word "niggardly" in a speech.  Despite the fact it looks and sounds uncomfortably close to the (ultimately Latin-derived) N-word, it's from an Old English/Norse root completely unrelated to it and predates it by a good few hundred years.

[MSU]

Freakonomics calls bullshit on the "rule of thumb" definition. Good enough for me, and it also renders questions about my cock now moot.

https://freakonomics.com/2011/07/01/rule-of-thumb/

Edited July 5, 2020 by MSU

[effeffsee_the2nd]

A number of prominent black people have contributed to articles in the press recently in the wake of the GF incident and subsequent statue protests saying, and ffs im paraphrasing here , " I don't know who said you can't call a blackboard a blackboard or sing bah bah black sheep , but it wasn't us"

for instance, the term black is perfectly acceptable to the majority of black people except from a few militant activists mostly in the states. the word coloured conjures up bad memories of the past and is widely disliked and taken as disrespectful or offensive

[Shotgun]

6 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

A number of prominent black people have contributed to articles in the press recently in the wake of the GF incident and subsequent statue protests saying, and ffs im paraphrasing here , " I don't know who said you can't call a blackboard a blackboard or sing bah bah black sheep , but it wasn't us"

for instance, the term black is perfectly acceptable to the majority of black people except from a few militant activists mostly in the states. the word coloured conjures up bad memories of the past and is widely disliked and taken as disrespectful or offensive

You can't say "Merry Christmas" because it offends atheists.
You can't be proud to be English because it offends immigrants.
You can't fly the Union Jack because it offends Muslims.
You can't sing "Baa baa black sheep" because it offends the blacks.

Except you'd struggle to find anyone in those groups who are offended by any of that. It's almost like those are non-issues dreamed up to keep us all divided. 

[Raidernation]

I have worked with black people who, when asked, would rather be called “black” than any pc “description” such as African American

[Romeo]

Another group has it worse....

 

.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Romeo

[HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows]

9 hours ago, MSU said:

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

Oooft, Prince Charles' bird is fucked then.