George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[pandarilla]

I'm not so sure it was just a slight mistake though,  hardly a slip of the tongue in the heat of the moment. 
I agree he shouldn't have his life ruined but I'm not sure it has been - he has lost his job due to his bad judgement (rightly IMO) but can pick himself up as he's young enough.  

There clearly needs to be consequences for folk who fall foul of society, especially someone who went so far out of his way to disrupt something, like this fanny.

My big issue with it is that often these people turn it around in their head and see themselves as the victim (and he'll have plenty of folk telling him that, both around him and on social media). He might even become a wee 'cause' that some folk want to help, protecting him from the big bad political correctness brigade.

There's no easy solution but f**k me it would be nice if folk learned the right lessons from stuff like this.

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

There clearly needs to be consequences for folk who fall foul of society, especially someone who went so far out of his way to disrupt something, like this fanny.

My big issue with it is that often these people turn it around in their head and see themselves as the victim (and he'll have plenty of folk telling him that, both around him and on social media). He might even become a wee 'cause' that some folk want to help, protecting him from the big bad political correctness brigade.

There's no easy solution but f**k me it would be nice if folk learned the right lessons from stuff like this.

Agreed.

The problem is that there are enough racists in the country to put enough weight behind an alternative perspective to  muddy the waters which means the right lessons are not only not learned but lost.   

[pandarilla]

As before this reads a lot like we shouldn't confront racism in case it makes the racists more racist. Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Milo Yiannopoulos have all be confronted head on and are all severely diminished in influence. The police and security services are taking far right terrorism seriously and are getting prosecutions. There's a dead easy solution: kick them off normal social media, force them onto the crank versions where they're very easily monitored, deal seriously with the resulting threat of real world violence. I'm very optimistic about the direction of travel with this. It's the insidious, don't even know they're doing it institutional stuff that's going to be harder to deal with & is arguably more damaging.

You seem to have misinterpreted my post. In no way am i suggesting we shouldn't confront racism and call it out for what it is. Not even close.

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

As before this reads a lot like we shouldn't confront racism in case it makes the racists more racist. Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, Milo Yiannopoulos have all be confronted head on and are all severely diminished in influence. The police and security services are taking far right terrorism seriously and are getting prosecutions. There's a dead easy solution: kick them off normal social media, force them onto the crank versions where they're very easily monitored, deal seriously with the resulting threat of real world violence. I'm very optimistic about the direction of travel with this. It's the insidious, don't even know they're doing it institutional stuff that's going to be harder to deal with & is arguably more damaging.

There's a new sin bin where Poor Tommy gets to sit alone with Katie Hopkins and talk about the old days, desperately hoping Trump will join them.

 

[pandarilla]

Agreed.
The problem is that there are enough racists in the country to put enough weight behind an alternative perspective to  muddy the waters which means the right lessons are not only not learned but lost.   

I would change that to say that there are a lot of fairly uneducated folk who aren't willing or able to put the time in to actually understand the complexity of structural racism and unconscious bias. These things can be quite nuanced.

These folk are different from the loud-mouths who spout ignorant shite, either because they're evil c***s, or because they're incredibly stupid, and genuinely think this isn't an issue.

Education is the key - and in that respect the coverage that blm is currently getting is brilliant.

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I would change that to say that there are a lot of fairly uneducated folk who aren't willing or able to put the time in to actually understand the complexity of structural racism and unconscious bias. These things can be quite nuanced.

These folk are different from the loud-mouths who spout ignorant shite, either because they're evil c***s, or because they're incredibly stupid, and genuinely think this isn't an issue.

Education is the key - and in that respect the coverage that blm is currently getting is brilliant.

Fair point - I was probably being too simplistic in that I was lumping the consciously racist in with the unconsciously racist.  On a very simple level some may argue you're either in or out but as we know it's really not that simple, and the real danger comes from the consciously racist - luckily, the vast majority don't fall into that category.  

 

[AL-FFC]

Seeing some footage on instagram of arrests and other things that have been going on in police custody in the US, 6yr olds being put in handcuffs, death of Elijah Mcclain and Breanna Taylor i just dont get it nothing these people done were threatening to anyone yet 2 of them were killed by police and no one is held to account.  Though some people dont help matters a woman calling 911 because there was some black kids playing american football in the streets what planet are these c*nts on.

[welshbairn]

24 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

yup they've done the same on Mastodon and some other one I can't remember. Milo was complaining that 20,000 followers wasn't enough to live on because only 3 of them will buy his books which is just what we want to happen to all of them.

This sounds like a fun read.

https://www.newstatesman.com/alt-right-politics-2016-andrew-marantz-antisocial-review

Edited June 26, 2020 by welshbairn

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Seeing some footage on instagram of arrests and other things that have been going on in police custody in the US, 6yr olds being put in handcuffs, death of Elijah Mcclain and Breanna Taylor i just dont get it nothing these people done were threatening to anyone yet 2 of them were killed by police and no one is held to account.  Though some people dont help matters a woman calling 911 because there was some black kids playing american football in the streets what planet are these c*nts on.

A little bit like wasting a doctors time asking for paracetamol prescriptions people who phone 911/999 and ask for the police for dog fouling and people playing football should be fined.

[Bairn in Exile]

12 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

Seeing some footage on instagram of arrests and other things that have been going on in police custody in the US, 6yr olds being put in handcuffs, death of Elijah Mcclain and Breanna Taylor i just dont get it nothing these people done were threatening to anyone yet 2 of them were killed by police and no one is held to account.  Though some people dont help matters a woman calling 911 because there was some black kids playing american football in the streets what planet are these c*nts on.

Hi Al, don't know if you are aware of these 2 websites?

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/

https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/

Always a frustrating, "make your blood boil" read.

I've come across these 2 pics recently, says it all.

[tamthebam]

A question posed 2,200 years ago was "Quis custodiet ipsos custodies" or "who will guard the guards". 

Even Judge Dredd has the SJS - the Judges who judge the Judges. Cool uniform. 

SJS Judge Pin perhaps not the best example, being batshit crazy. 

[tamthebam]

5 hours ago, jagfox BLM said:

There's a Majors error in this reply. Reported

just shows you, he really was "the unknown stuntman"... 

[D.A.F.C]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1399535/fife-businessman-says-he-meant-no-offence-when-he-blackfaced-in-a-bear-suit/


Unbelievable Geoff

[Shandon Par]

44 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1399535/fife-businessman-says-he-meant-no-offence-when-he-blackfaced-in-a-bear-suit/


Unbelievable Geoff

What is it with bears in Dunfermline driving heavy machinery? 

[D.A.F.C]

What is it with bears in Dunfermline driving heavy machinery? 

They're out of control

[pandarilla]

I know you don't mean or want that, but 'ooh it's all so difficult isn't it' is precisely what these people, for whom there's nothing difficult at all philosophically speaking, need and want. Sometimes a sledgehammer's just the right tool to crack a nut.

Very rarely is a sledgehammer the best tool, hence the saying.

I have zero tolerance for loud mouths who spout racism, anywhere. They need challenged, and they deserve whatever consequences they get.

But is there not a danger of the tactic of outing racists is so blunt and harsh that those people who are genuinely not that bright and could swing either way - are more likely to support the loud mouth racist types? I'm genuinely torn on this and concede that your more simplistic zero tolerance approach might be the best way.

It's difficult to make this case and like i say, I'm open to being persuaded, but surely there are different gradients of racist folk, from pure evil fuckers all the way to folk who do down know it's not right but still laugh or even share racist jokes.

I know whenever you start saying or sharing racist stuff then that makes you racist. But I'd like to see more attempts to convert the less bright aspects of our society to the good guy side, rather than dark side (so to speak). It obviously does f go on- and the blm debate in the media usually helps with that.

It's a bit like trying to rehabilitate wee neds who get into criminal behaviour when they're young. It's much better for all of us if we can try to turn them into functioning members of the society rather than just going for the easier option of punishing them harshly (although i do understand there are big issues with that analogy).

[tongue_tied_danny]

9 hours ago, Shandon Par said:

What is it with bears in Dunfermline driving heavy machinery? 

Is that the bloke from Ran in your avatar?I

A fucking brilliant film..

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by tongue_tied_danny

[Shandon Par]

7 hours ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

Is that the bloke from Ran in your avatar?I

A fucking brilliant film..

 

It is indeed. He had a proper lockdown appearance.

[milhouse]

Is there a good reason why analysis of people arrested/convicted based on race needs to be done at all? Is it relevant. Does it achieve anything useful?

[dirty dingus]

Statue defenders come rain or shine. These folk are the backbone of the empire