Cancel culture

[DA Baracus]

When she was talking about wizards she was meaning the KKK kind.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Rugster said:

It’ll go to number 1 because she has millions of acolytes who would buy the phone book if she wrote it. 

Like her stuff,  you buy it. If you don't like her stuff then you don't buy it.

Life used to be so much easier. 

 

[Thereisalight..]

Christmas will be next to be cancelled...after Halloween or course 

[Bairnardo]

Christmas will be next to be cancelled...after Halloween or course 

Ye canny even cancel Christmas anymore without someone being offended

[heedthebaa]

1 hour ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Christmas will be next to be cancelled...after Halloween or course 

Good

[GordonS]

15 hours ago, GiGi said:

Just seen his rant about Diversity and BLM from last week. Ooft he must just post videos when he runs out of drink at 5  in the morning the stupid old c**t. Looks more like Jackson Carlaw than himself these days.

 

"Cancel culture is a terrible leftie thing!"

Also...

"We must all complain and get those anti-racist dancers off the telly!"

[parsforlife]

2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

"Cancel culture is a terrible leftie thing!"

Also...

"We must all complain and get those anti-racist dancers off the telly!"

And everyone involved In sport must keep their opinions silent,  unless I agree with them.

[8MileBU]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

2 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Christmas will be next to be cancelled...after Halloween or course 

Ye canny even cancel Christmas anymore without someone being offended

Santa himself who cancelled it, offended by all the Facebook maws ranting how “He better no bring the covid doon the lum wae um!”  

21 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

Good

^^^ Baw Humbag.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

And everyone involved In sport must keep their opinions silent,  unless I agree with them.

"They must stand and sing a song imploring a divine being to protect an unelected billionaire hereditary monarch, while wearing a fabric flower that represents the dead soldiers of one side of some wars (the initial one pre-dating democracy in their country), but they must not express the opinion that police officers shouldn't murder black people."

[Boo Khaki]

13 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

I do understand it's a total minefield, and as no more than a sports fan and someone trying to navigate life and remain a decent c**t as much as I can, it's easy for me to maybe over simplify it, but this particular case is a gruelling watch with some really unsavoury stuff happening and I believe it to be a witch hunt and as I said, a proxy war with some really bigoted viewpoints driving it. The merits of the individual case get lost somewhat when it becomes clear that its not actually about the individual, who is simply being fed to the wolves as part of the above. 

Indeed

12 hours ago, Detournement said:

Because it would make a complete mockery of women's sport. 

It's funny how entrenched people are on this. For years saying she is biologically male and has functioning tested was a vicious slur according to her fans and now it's been confirmed as true it's seemingly irrelevant. If all this had been public when she first broke through I don't think she would have built up so much support. 

This is the nub of it for me.

 I'm generally all for GRA reform and I don't buy the nonsense that it's going to lead to a spate of 'penis owners' donning dresses in order to loiter in women's spaces for nefarious purposes. So in most respects it would be fair to describe me a trans ally,  or whatever term you choose to describe someone who believes that people should be able to use spaces assigned to the sex they identify with.

To that end, I've long been a supporter of Caster Semenya... as I was under the impression she was a biological woman with a DSD that meant she produced far more natural testosterone than non DSD women. Now that it's been clarified that she is in fact a biological man with a DSD, I don't see how it's remotely fair to permit her to continue to compete unfettered with biological women. She claims she identifies as a woman, although seemingly she presents as male away from the track, is married to a biological woman, and is looking into fathering children with extracted sperm. Regardless, I don't believe that how she behaves off the track should have any bearing on the matter of whether it is fair or proper that she competes against biological women on it.

The simple fact is, for all intents and purposes, she is physically a man, and enjoys all the physical and developmental advantages of having undergone male puberty. I think the issue is that people still want to defend her because they still think that in some way she must be 'less than 100% male', or a female who has some sort of natural advantage over most females. This isn't the case, she's biologically male, has undergone male puberty, there is nothing about her personal biology that means she should be at a disadvantage competing with biological men. It's self-evident she would be a mediocre athlete by men's standards, and while that's sad for her, there are millions of non-DSD males  who also would not be able to compete with the elite male middle distance runners, but nobody would suggest they take testosterone inhibitors then run against women.

The entire context of Caster Semenya's plight changes once you realise that she is not in any way biologically female. In essence, she really isn't any different to any of the formerly 100% biologically male athletes who have self-ID'd as women and taken to utterly destroying women's collegiate sports thanks to the fact that they are not in any way diminished, changed, or impeded from their formerly male identities. While I'm all for acceptance of transwomen into womens' spaces when there is no detriment to biological women, I can not hand on heart say that I think it's perfectly fair to permit 100% biological males to compete unfettered against biological females. The natural end consequence of this is every single 'womens' sport on the planet being completely dominated by 100% male bodied people who identify as women.

I realise that's somewhat hypocritical for someone who claims to be supportive of trans rights, but if you do want me to accept that 'anyone who says they are a woman is a woman, under all circumstances, no exceptions', then where does that leave biological women within their own sports? I defy anyone to go and watch collegiate athletics and tell me that events being utterly dominated, to the point of rendering them farcical, by 100% male bodied people who used to compete unsuccessfully against men is in any way fair. It's happening, and if you insist on blanket acceptance across all women's sports, it's going to continue to appear in more and more disciplines until it becomes the norm everywhere. What are biological women to do? It's not remotely realistic to expect them to just accept it.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Szamo's_Ammo]

On 15/09/2020 at 19:29, JMDP said:

Even after being cancelled, you're still very weird, H_B. 

If I remember correctly from about 10 years ago on this site, Hieronymus Bosch was something of an intellectual on the forum. You must be thinking of someone else!

He's no Frederic George Stephens, that's for sure.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Szamo's_Ammo

[Boo Khaki]

5 hours ago, ali_91 said:

The whole post is horrific but these two paragraphs especially are a shambles. 
 

‘She can’t identify as a woman because she’s married to a woman,’ the lowlight for me. 
 

Brutal and uninformed nonsense throughout. 

I thought I'd made it emphatically clear that I believe she is a woman and that I totally accept that her claim to identify as one is perfectly legitimate?

I'm not sure at all what you think is 'uninformed'. The fact is, Caster Semenya is biologically male. There is absolutely nothing female about her. That's the reality of the situation, in so far as her physiology is concerned.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[Boo Khaki]

2 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

You will of course be able to link me to somewhere that shows this to be ‘fact,’ and that there is ‘nothing female about her,’ I take it? 
 

Maybe you can also explain what her being married to a woman has to do with her biological sex whilst you are at it? 

Her condition is 46 XY DSD. People with XY Chromosomes are biologically male. 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Her being married to a woman has nothing to do with her biological sex, I've never claimed it has, and I'm not sure why you're implying I have.

[Boo Khaki]

Just now, ali_91 said:

This is what I mean by uninformed, XY does not automatically mean male. Look up the word usually in the dictionary. 
 

Sorry, just reread your post, you suggested being married to a woman was one of the things that makes you doubt if she really identifies as a female, not is biologically one. 
 

What does her being married to a woman have to do with how she identifies herself? 

For the sake of clarity, can I just re-emphasise that I am completely accepting of her claim to identify as a woman?

The point about her off-track lifestyle is that I can see why people are sceptical about her ID claim when she does not present as female, and appears to live a typically 'male' role, i.e. married to a biological woman and 'fathering' children. 

Again, I don't think that should have any bearing on the matter of which category of athletes she competes with, but I do think it's understandable why some people doubt her self-ID is legitimate.

As for definition of 'male', first entry in the Oxford English says -

Quote

"Of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring."

Semenya produces spermatozoa and possesses XY chromosomes.

[Boo Khaki]

Just now, ali_91 said:

This post is nuts. You think because she’s married to a female and her and her partner are having a child it is understandable that people will question how she self-ID’s? 

That, and the fact that she does not present as female in any scenario other than when she's competing athletically, yes, I think it's perfectly understandable why some people might be sceptical.

People who self-ID tend to outwardly show some signs of living as the gender they identify with, Semenya doesn't do this apart from when she is competing athletically, so I think it's only natural that some people will ask questions about the sincerity of her claim.

Again, I don't doubt her sincerity, and I don't believe it has any relevance to the on-track debate anyway, but I can see why some people might suggest her self-ID claim is cynical.

[Boo Khaki]

2 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

I’ll drop her a tweet to wear a dress and some high heels going forward. Jesus wept. 

Well maybe that would placate some of the people who question her motives?

For the umpteenth time, I don't know why you seem to think I doubt her.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[The Moonster]

12 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

People who self-ID tend to outwardly show some signs of living as the gender they identify with, Semenya doesn't do this apart from when she is competing athletically, so I think it's only natural that some people will ask questions about the sincerity of her claim.

What does she do in her personal life that shows she identifies as a man?

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

What does she do in her personal life that shows she identifies as a man?

Drinks beer.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

What does she do in her personal life that shows she identifies as a man?

Well her sceptics claim that dressing in male clothing, being married to a biological woman, and attempting to father biological children using her own sperm are all signs that she's rather flexible with her identity. I disagree, because I don't believe that clothing is or should be off-limits to people of the 'wrong' sex, same sex marriage is legally recognised in South Africa so people are, rightfully, free to marry whoever the hell they like regardless of sex, and plenty of people without DSD's undergo medical procedures designed to assist them in conceiving children anyway, so that's hardly a stick to beat her with either.

The scepticism, I think, stems from some sort of belief that there's only one 'legitimate' way for Self-ID'ing people to live, which is clearly nonsense, but it is what it is. I can only presume that there are some people who will only accept self-ID provided those claiming to identify outwith their own biological sex follow some sort of handbook for how they are supposed to go about that. In fairness, right now legally acquiring a gender identity other than that on your birth certificate does actually require adherence to some pretty stringent strictures, so perhaps it stems from that notion of what it means to be 'legitimate' in terms of self-ID. That doesn't explain though why there is inconsistency in the legal definitions and requirements across the globe, yet commonality in the claims. Some people are just bigots, or have an agenda to push, which is I think why Semenya's case has become a circus that is being driven by issues that go far beyond the questions about the athlete herself. It's disgraceful she's been subjected to this farce, but the time to sort it without recriminations was ten years back.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

Well her sceptics claim that dressing in male clothing, being married to a biological woman, and attempting to father biological children using her own sperm are all signs that she's rather flexible with her identity. I disagree, because I don't believe that clothing is or should be off-limits to people of the 'wrong' sex, same sex marriage is legally recognised in South Africa so people are, rightfully, free to marry whoever the hell they like regardless of sex, and plenty of people without DSD's undergo medical procedures designed to assist them in conceiving children anyway, so that's hardly a stick to beat her with either.

Sounds like a bunch of bigots getting upset tbh.