Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, DEAD. GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE!

[Shotgun]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Rather than his defence being that God actually spoke to him, was it not more that he was clearly mentally ill, as evidenced by the fact that he claimed God talked to him?

A subtle distinction maybe, but I think it was there.

Not sure I’m totally following but are you saying that the decision was “We’ve established that you’re mentally ill, therefore your claims of being spoken to by God are BS”. As opposed to “You claim to have been spoken to by God, therefore you’re mentally ill”? If so, that would make sense. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Shotgun said:

Not sure I’m totally following but are you saying that the decision was “We’ve established that you’re mentally ill, therefore your claims of being spoken to by God are BS”. As opposed to “You claim to have been spoken to by God, therefore you’re mentally ill”? If so, that would make sense. 

What I'm saying is there wasn't a claim that he should be treated with leniency because it was God's doing rather than his. 

Instead, his defence were trying to claim his responsibility was diminished by the fact of his serious mental illness.  That mental illness was manifest in delusional claims.

That's where the Bush/Blair thing breaks down.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Monkey Tennis

[101]

25 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I’m glad that was the call but I’m curious; how would a court go about disproving such a claim? The bedrock of religion is  “You can’t prove God doesn’t exist, therefore that’s proof that he does. Neener, neener, neeeener!”
 

As has been noted, Bush and Blair both claimed their actions re the Iraq invasion were justified because God told them to it. Hundreds of thousands of people dead and they’re still walking free. 

A physiologist would determine if he had schizophrenia and if so how ill he was. Clearly he was mentally ill because chopping up prostitutes is not normal behaviour but unlike most mental illnesses he knew what he was doing and kept doing it. As ICTChris said he was a violent, vile man who deserves to rot in his unmarked grave

[Dee Man]

57 minutes ago, 101 said:

A physiologist would determine if he had schizophrenia and if so how ill he was. Clearly he was mentally ill because chopping up prostitutes is not normal behaviour but unlike most mental illnesses he knew what he was doing and kept doing it. As ICTChris said he was a violent, vile man who deserves to rot in his unmarked grave

I reckon that would get thrown out of court on the grounds of the expert being under-qualified. 

[Clockwork]

It really is amazing to read now.   It's incredible that it doesn't come from the middle ages, but instead dates back just four decades. 
I think the whole idea that there was a distinction between the "innocent" victims and those perceived to be somehow deserving, was a big factor in the handling of the case.  It was a sentiment contained in the hoax letters too, clearly tapping into the prevailing outlook. 

This. West Yorkshire Police we’re rightly castigated for the attitude taken to investigate the murder of prostitutes who were somehow less innocent or more deserving it seemed. The public at large I recall, held a similar view however, certainly at the start of Sutcliffe’s reign of terror. When teenager Jayne McDonald was killed in Leeds her neighbours described her as an ‘innocent young girl, who wasn’t like the others’. (Yorkshire TV 1977). A sign of the times back then, it wasn’t a sentiment that belonged solely to George Oldfield and his team.

[ICTChris]

When Sutcliffe was arrested he was wearing a ‘rape kit’ which he had fashioned to stop him leaving forensic evidence on the victims. He also sexually assaulted the victims before and after death. Doesn’t seem like the actions of man on a quest from God.

Also, Sutcliffe carries out the murders over a period of years and years, during which time he was married, working and maintained a stable life. People who hear voices telling them to murder people tend not to do this over a period of years and keep it secret from everyone around them. The unfortunates who do experience homicidal psychosis tend not to behave in this way.

Sutcliffe’s claim about voices was a way to avoid pleading guilty and taking responsibility for the killings. It’s similar to another infamous serial killers around that time, David Berkowitz the Son of Sam. People will still say that his neighbours dog told him to do it but he made that up to cover up the fact that he murdered people as he was sexually aroused by the act of killing them.

[Monkey Tennis]

36 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

 

This. West Yorkshire Police we’re rightly castigated for the attitude taken to investigate the murder of prostitutes who were somehow less innocent or more deserving it seemed. The public at large I recall, held a similar view however, certainly at the start of Sutcliffe’s reign of terror. When teenager Jayne McDonald was killed in Leeds her neighbours described her as an ‘innocent young girl, who wasn’t like the others’. (Yorkshire TV 1977). A sign of the times back then, it wasn’t a sentiment that belonged solely to George Oldfield and his team.

 

 

Absolutely.

The past really is a foreign country in which they do things differently.  I think such noises totally reflected those prevalent in wider society.  It's still shocking that they were aired so publicly by someone in an elevated position though.  I suppose a defence would be that he was attempting to appeal directly to the murderer, but the comments clearly betray something.  

They reflect the presence of a brand of misogyny that only allowed women to be seen as sweet, innocent and in need of male protection, or as sluts deserving contempt and any fate they might meet.   Strange looking, probably hypocritical views of sexual behaviour were doubtless wrapped up in it all too.

I'm old enough to remember the period, albeit as a kid.  Sometimes it takes a quote like that to remind you of how much and how rapidly outlooks can change.

[johnnydun]

8 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

Have they gained independence from Spain yet? 

It's all over the front page...

[SoapMactavish]

21 hours ago, Bert Raccoon said:

Peter Sutcliffe Experience? Great band, saw them open the Melody Maker stage at Reading in 97 just before Catatonia.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, SoapMactavish said:

 

While you're at it.

( NB This album was recorded and released before Ian Stuart went off his nut.)

[Mark Connolly]

7 hours ago, ICTChris said:

When Sutcliffe was arrested he was wearing a ‘rape kit’ which he had fashioned to stop him leaving forensic evidence on the victims. He also sexually assaulted the victims before and after death. Doesn’t seem like the actions of man on a quest from God.

Also, Sutcliffe carries out the murders over a period of years and years, during which time he was married, working and maintained a stable life. People who hear voices telling them to murder people tend not to do this over a period of years and keep it secret from everyone around them. The unfortunates who do experience homicidal psychosis tend not to behave in this way.

Sutcliffe’s claim about voices was a way to avoid pleading guilty and taking responsibility for the killings. It’s similar to another infamous serial killers around that time, David Berkowitz the Son of Sam. People will still say that his neighbours dog told him to do it but he made that up to cover up the fact that he murdered people as he was sexually aroused by the act of killing them.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

When Sutcliffe was arrested he was wearing a ‘rape kit’ which he had fashioned to stop him leaving forensic evidence on the victims. He also sexually assaulted the victims before and after death. Doesn’t seem like the actions of man on a quest from God.

Except,depressingly,it does

[jagfox]

On 13/11/2020 at 15:09, Sergeant Wilson said:

The documentary of the investigation is brilliant and explains why  such credence was given to the tapes. He essentially sent the cop in charge on a wild goose chase and allowed Sutcliffe extra time to kill again.

Paid the penalty in the end...

[coprolite]

21 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Absolutely.

The past really is a foreign country in which they do things differently.  I think such noises totally reflected those prevalent in wider society.  It's still shocking that they were aired so publicly by someone in an elevated position though.  I suppose a defence would be that he was attempting to appeal directly to the murderer, but the comments clearly betray something.  

They reflect the presence of a brand of misogyny that only allowed women to be seen as sweet, innocent and in need of male protection, or as sluts deserving contempt and any fate they might meet.   Strange looking, probably hypocritical views of sexual behaviour were doubtless wrapped up in it all too.

I'm old enough to remember the period, albeit as a kid.  Sometimes it takes a quote like that to remind you of how much and how rapidly outlooks can change.

When that Sussex strangler was on the go only a few years ago the news started reporting it as prostitutes being killed. Only after the complaints flooded in did they start calling them  "women" in the first instance. 

It's part of the same mindset (although on a different part of a spectrum) that prevailed in the past. 

[Monkey Tennis]

50 minutes ago, coprolite said:

When that Sussex strangler was on the go only a few years ago the news started reporting it as prostitutes being killed. Only after the complaints flooded in did they start calling them  "women" in the first instance. 

It's part of the same mindset (although on a different part of a spectrum) that prevailed in the past. 

Suffolk, but yes.

[coprolite]

50 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Suffolk, but yes.

Oops. I apologise to the Suffolk Strangler for any offence i may have caused. 

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Oops. I apologise to the Suffolk Strangler for any offence i may have caused. 

Pretty mealy mouthed apology, imho. Nobody takes responsibilty for their actions anymore...

Edited November 15, 2020 by Jacksgranda

[Dee Man]

10 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Oops. I apologise to the Suffolk Strangler for any offence i may have caused. 

At least now you know there's a gap in the market for a Sussex Strangler. Probably best to move fast in case anyone else gets in there first. 

[Larry Hood]

You talking about this guy?

[Silvio Tattiescone]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

When that Sussex strangler was on the go only a few years ago the news started reporting it as prostitutes being killed. Only after the complaints flooded in did they start calling them  "women" in the first instance. 

It's part of the same mindset (although on a different part of a spectrum) that prevailed in the past. 

The BBC made a musical out of prostitutes being murdered.