New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Pyramidic]

2 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

I really do not see what the West/East boundary has got to do with the Tayside clubs.

The issue of “precedent” that has been covered in previous posts. Will we see fixed administrative boundaries or flexible undefined boundaries? If an West/East boundary is not defined it may enable West Lothian clubs to play in the WOSFL. This would strengthen the case for similar flexibility that would enable Tayside clubs to play in the EOSFL.

[Stag Nation]

20 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The position may be taken by the interim league management that this issue will be addressed after league officials are elected and discussions have taken place with the EOSFL and SOSFL over the next month or so. While this may appear a sensible and logical way forward it is going to leave the West Lothian issue wide open to further speculation and unrest until the position is ratified at the League AGM.

West Lothian clubs and others may be left sitting on the fence wondering whether their respective futures lie in the West or the East. Then there are the wider implications for the Tayside clubs.

If the WL clubs are left "sitting on the fence" it is of their own making. If they want certainty, just apply to the EoS.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The issue of “precedent” that has been covered in previous posts. Will we see fixed administrative boundaries or flexible undefined boundaries? If an West/East boundary is not defined it may enable West Lothian clubs to play in the WOSFL. This would strengthen the case for similar flexibility that would enable Tayside clubs to play in the EOSFL.

Not really. The main issue over Tayside is the pathway Highland v. Lowland. There's no doubt that the West Lothian teams fall under the Lowland and the Lowland League has accepted the WoS/EoS/SoS as feeders below without set boundaries.

The EoSFL unilaterally accepting clubs not only has the potential to alter the Lowland League pyramid, but the Development League and South Challenge Cup which the other leagues haven't agreed upon.

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The issue of “precedent” that has been covered in previous posts. Will we see fixed administrative boundaries or flexible undefined boundaries? If an West/East boundary is not defined it may enable West Lothian clubs to play in the WOSFL. This would strengthen the case for similar flexibility that would enable Tayside clubs to play in the EOSFL.

There is precedent in terms of how relegation from LL to tier 6 is handled.  The 4 leagues have come to agreement there.  The east/west boundary is somewhere between Stirling and Cumbernauld. There’s not much room for West Lothian sides to argue they are to the west of that line.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

There is precedent in terms of how relegation from LL to tier 6 is handled.  The 4 leagues have come to agreement there.  The east/west boundary is somewhere between Stirling and Cumbernauld. There’s not much room for West Lothian sides to argue they are to the west of that line.

That's true, I had forgotten there would have been this sort of discussion at the start of last season when setting the new relegated leagues for LL teams.

[8MileBU]

54 minutes ago, Dev said:

But the ground isn't showing as being in Lanarkshire. There's already a senior league which covers the Lothians.

Luncarty moved to their nearest senior league which meant going south not east.

Yeah I know mate I’m just using it as an example of how “by a bawhair” county lines might be. In terms of their postal address though, the ML postcode firmly plunks them in North Lanarkshire.

[glensmad]

Tomorrow night - Monday 1st March - the WOSFL SGM is being held. In my view it is essential that the administrative boundary of the League is addressed in the Constitution.
This will be covered in:

“Business of the meeting.

1) Proposals to alter the Constitution and Rules of the WoSFL.”

Clubs should have already received copies of the Proposed Constitution which will be considered at the Zoom meeting.

My key questions are:

1. Does the Proposed Constitution define the administrative boundary of the league?

2. If NO, should this key issue have been addressed?

3. If YES, is West Lothian within or outwith the administrative boundary covered by the league?

The point that I am making is that if the league’s administrative boundary is not covered and resolved at the SGM the West Lothian issue is likely to fester and grow. 

The position may be taken by the interim league management that this issue will be addressed after league officials are elected and discussions have taken place with the EOSFL and SOSFL over the next month or so. While this may appear a sensible and logical way forward it is going to leave the West Lothian issue wide open to further speculation and unrest until the position is ratified at the League AGM.

West Lothian clubs and others may be left sitting on the fence wondering whether their respective futures lie in the West or the East. Then there are the wider implications for the Tayside clubs.

The constitutional changes to be discussed at the SGM tomorrow night are to facilitate the creation of certain necessary new posts on the new WoSFL Board. The clubs have been informed of this. The potential issue of boundaries cannot be raised at the SGM, however it may be discussed at the General Meeting which follows the SGM.

[Stag Nation]

26 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Yeah I know mate I’m just using it as an example of how “by a bawhair” county lines might be. In terms of their postal address though, the ML postcode firmly plunks them in North Lanarkshire.

No, it doesn't. Postcodes are designed for the efficient delivery of mail. They don't necessarily follow local government  boundaries, and in any case counties haven't been used in "correct" postal addresses for decades.

FWIW, local government in Scotland has been reorganised at least twice since postcodes were introduced.

[PastyMan]

32 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Yeah I know mate I’m just using it as an example of how “by a bawhair” county lines might be. In terms of their postal address though, the ML postcode firmly plunks them in North Lanarkshire.

Post code lettters count for nothing though. The Greenrigg addresses also have a ML postcode and they are in West Lothian. The postcode letters would be unchanged even if enw administrative boundaries were to be introduced.

If they were ony to rename themselves Greenrigg Royal ....

[8MileBU]

6 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

No, it doesn't. Postcodes are designed for the efficient delivery of mail. They don't necessarily follow local government  boundaries, and in any case counties haven't been used in "correct" postal addresses for decades.

FWIW, local government in Scotland has been reorganised at least twice since postcodes were introduced.

FFS! This is exactly what I’m getting at - Whichever way you want to look at it, there’s going to be various arguments for and against who should and who could play where and why! Hence my previous post about it being an admin nightmare and an overly complicated mess since boundaries for the current league set ups having never been defined.

Edited February 28, 2021 by 8MileBU

[PastyMan]

4 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

No, it doesn't. Postcodes are designed for the efficient delivery of mail. They don't necessarily follow local government  boundaries, and in any case counties haven't been used in "correct" postal addresses for decades.

FWIW, local government in Scotland has been reorganised at least twice since postcodes were introduced.

Ha ,  Snap!
.... from bitter experience working in a  Government department producing stats based on all manners of administrative building blocks

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

FFS! This is exactly what I’m getting at - Whichever way you want to look at it, there’s going to be various arguments for and against who should and who could play where and why! Hence my previous post about it being an admin nightmare and an overly complicated mess since boundaries for the current league set ups having never been defined.

As is with the case of Luncarty part of the problem would be with harthill is you set a hard boundary. Then x number of years later they get a new ground in another part of town suddenly they're in the wrong area.

Right now they've got a football pitch in an otherwise empty field that's not part of either Harthill or Greenrigg and somehow that means they're Lanarkshire or West Lothian.

[LongTimeLurker]

There are no boundaries right now at tier 6 so fixating over boundaries is a wee bit futile until we hear whether the general consensus amongst WoS and EoS clubs is to tell WL or Dundee/Angus clubs to definitively GTF or come on in and join the party. All should be clearer than it is now in the not too distant future.

Where Harthill Royal are concerned they took over Polkemmet Colliery's old ground. That club would probably have preferred the east region setup as the colliery was in West Lothian close to Whitburn and would have been mainly Whitburn in workforce terms:

https://canmore.org.uk/site/132674/polkemmet-colliery

Harthill Royal were originally called Harthill Royal Bar. The pub in question appears to be on the other side of the county boundary, which was usually the deciding factor in SJFA terms but not as all important at least for now anyway  in a senior grade context:

https://restaurantguru.com/The-Royal-Bar-Harthill-2

[honestly united]

Instead of using old county borders why not bring the debate into the 21st century, and use googlemaps to solve all our problems.

Put a pin in the centre of Glasgow and a pin in the centre of Edinburgh, then measure the distance from a clubs ground to each pin on the map. Closer to Glasgow - WoSL, closer to Edinburgh EoSL. 

Not having measured but I would assume Harthill are bang in the middle between the 2, but it would probably shunt Forth east and I think puts Falkirk WoSL, but Grangemouth EoSL. Time for a Radical shake up i think 

[Burnieman]

2 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Instead of using old county borders why not bring the debate into the 21st century, and use googlemaps to solve all our problems.

Put a pin in the centre of Glasgow and a pin in the centre of Edinburgh, then measure the distance from a clubs ground to each pin on the map. Closer to Glasgow - WoSL, closer to Edinburgh EoSL. 

Not having measured but I would assume Harthill are bang in the middle between the 2, but it would probably shunt Forth east and I think puts Falkirk WoSL, but Grangemouth EoSL. Time for a Radical shake up i think 

  brightened up my Monday morning if nothing else.

[honestly united]

3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

  brightened up my Monday morning if nothing else.

After 3 weeks of West Lothian is east because its always been is obviously the best way to do it 

 

[jimbaxters]

[Pyramidic]

23 hours ago, glensmad said:

Caledonian Braves' proper team are in the Lowland League. It's their reserves who are in the SoSFL.
 

I suppose there is always the possibility that Caledonian Braves Reserves will morph back into the Edusport Academy and submit an application to the WOSFL.

[Pyramidic]

Tass Thistle 2004 to become the new Kilbride Thistle AFC Under-20 Development Squad.

https://scottishamateurfootballnews.com/2021/03/01/doc-prescribes-continued-improvement-at-soon-to-be-kilbride-set-up/

[Marshmallo]

50 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Tass Thistle 2004 to become the new Kilbride Thistle AFC Under-20 Development Squad.

https://scottishamateurfootballnews.com/2021/03/01/doc-prescribes-continued-improvement-at-soon-to-be-kilbride-set-up/

I glance at these year groups and instantly think "why would an under 8s team be in the under-20 league?!?!" before realising how old I am getting