Celtic v tory no voting Aberdeen. 17th Feb

[kingjoey]

4 minutes ago, G-MAN said:

 

Was with you up until the last sentence.

He’s garbage and not good enough.
 

 

Dean Campbell is certainly not garbage. He’s a decent player who is certainly improving overall. He has had a couple of poor games this season, and one of the things levelled at him is that he is too negative. I think that one of his roles is to pick up the ball in midfield and try to make sure that we retain possession, which he normally does well, but in the last few games he has been looking to move the ball forward more often. 

[tarapoa]

5 minutes ago, G-MAN said:

I can’t for the life of me see why he is is exempt from criticism. Is it because he is an Aberdeen lad ?

Just my opinion, don’t see what he offers. Bar one positive run in the first half he was rotten.

As he is every time he plays.

 

He's a good footballer and keeps possession well without looking too flustered - dare I say it, not too dissimilar to The Rat at that age, but maybe not quite as physically strong yet.  He still has a lot to learn, but much better having him out there getting first team experience than using up a jersey on the likes of Ojo, who will do a similar job.

That free kick though in the second half - how many times just now are players taking it in turns to either hit the first man, overhit it or slice the ball out of the park.  Often when there are half a dozen six foot plussers waiting for some kind of delivery in the box.

 

[DrewDon]

42 minutes ago, big al said:

Celtic fans a bit embarrassing here, and they know it deep down.

So are some of ours in claiming that it's a stonewall penalty - never a penalty in a million years for me. 

[G-MAN]

I must be in the minority about Campbell then.

Personally think he wouldn’t get a game for any other top division side.

[Archie McSquackle]

Totally agree, would’ve been very soft and the ref had a shocker.
 
But joey [emoji23][emoji23]
 
https://twitter.com/WATP214/status/1362120651193073670?s=20

That's the first time I've seen the penalty claim and, as a supporter of neither team, that's never a penalty. He's got his arm naturally at his side and the ball is whacked off it from close range. It looks worse as he tries to move his arm out of the way after the contact but I really don't see it as a penalty. If he gave a free-kick to Celtic for something similar elsewhere than that's wrong but just sounds like old-fashioned inconsistent and pish refereeing.

[10menwent2mow]

I thought Campbell was one of our better players tonight. He wanted the ba, generally kept it and did a few things going forward. It seems to be the modus operandi of a lot of our support to either praise or criticise Campbell excessively. Same seems to go for Ferguson and McCrorie, apart from the criticising part when they are shite.

[tarapoa]

1 hour ago, DrewDon said:

So are some of ours in claiming that it's a stonewall penalty - never a penalty in a million years for me. 

It's maybe because we have no idea what a "stonewall penalty" is any more.

Penalty given against Hoban in Paisley and Watkins in the Motherwell game early season for unintentional transgressions based on their body silhouette at the time.  Handball against Hoban just outside the box tonight given.

Shankland's volleyball on the line at Tanndice against us - no penalty.

St Mirren player puts his arms out on Sat and ball hits him - no penalty.

Celtic player this evening in replica of Hoban's handball offence later on - no penalty.

Apparently there's a technical rule now, but it's not being applied with consistency - and given we keeping hitting the woodwork and getting key players injured - it would be nice if these things at least balanced themselves off.......

Edited February 18, 2021 by tarapoa

[bennett]

41 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

At last, the truth. No idea why Celtic fans aren’t ecstatic that they won the match and the referee denied their opponents a definite penalty. Should be pleased, surely?

If only Scottish fitba had VAR.....

[craigkillie]

That is absolutely not even close to being a penalty. His arms is by his side until the ball is blasted against it, and it's only sent upwards by the force of the ball.

[IrishBhoy]

9 minutes ago, tarapoa said:

It's maybe because we have no idea what a "stonewall penalty" is any more.

Penalty given against Hoban in Paisley and Watkins in the Motherwell game early season for unintentional transgressions based on their body silhouette at the time.  Handball against Hoban just outside the box tonight given.

Shankland's volleyball on the line at Tanndice against us - no penalty.

St Mirren player puts his arms out on Sat and ball hits him - no penalty.

Celtic player this evening in replica of Hoban's handball offence later on - no penalty.

Apparently there's a technical rule now, but it's not being applied consistency - and given we keeping hitting the woodwork and getting key players injured - it would be nice if these things at least balanced themselves off.......

As much as our officials are incompetent clowns, they are on an absolute hiding to nothing with the hand ball law. The claim tonight at Parkhead isn’t close to being a penalty imo, but we seen similar incidences being punished at the start of this season, most notably in the EPL where there seemed to be a handball like Welsh’s resulting in a penalty almost every week. If Muir has then awarded Celtic a free kick for a similar hand ball outside the area, I wouldn’t put it completely down to bias (although it can’t be ruled out, Eddie Smith officiated in the league for a number of years). It seems more like the way most games seem to be officiated, where two identical challenges result in very different outcomes depending on what area of the pitch they occur.  Its an annoyance of mine how many free kicks get awarded for nothing challenges in the middle of the pitch, that wouldn’t even be considered close to a penalty if it happened in the box. 
 

This is obviously complete guesswork, but if you were able to analyse all the free kicks given  within 10 yards of the half way line, and then asked yourself if that same challenge would have been given as a penalty if it happened inside the box, I would say about 50% of the time the referee would not award a penalty. How many times do you see a soft free kick given for a striker backing into a defender on the half way line, and compare it to how many times you’ve seen a penalty awarded at a corner or free kick when a defender does similar to an attacker. 

[Steve_Wilkos]

39 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

He's clearly not garbage. Has been better than Feguson the past two matches but for the life of me I can't see why Ferguson is exempt from criticism.

Seriously.

Ferguson is not exempt from criticsm - and I would respectfully disagree that Campbell has been better than Ferguson for the last two matches - but, Ferguson has been the standout midfielder who is willing to drive into the opposition's box since we signed him. He's the guy who gets his body between players in the penalty area, play passes behind defences, and generally takes responsibility for the middle of the park.

[kingjoey]

1 minute ago, IrishBhoy said:

As much as our officials are incompetent clowns, they are on an absolute hiding to nothing with the hand ball law. The claim tonight at Parkhead isn’t close to being a penalty imo, but we seen similar incidences being punished at the start of this season, most notably in the EPL where there seemed to be a handball like Welsh’s resulting in a penalty almost every week. If Muir has then awarded Celtic a free kick for a similar hand ball outside the area, I wouldn’t put it completely down to bias (although it can’t be ruled out, Eddie Smith officiated in the league for a number of years). It seems more like the way most games seem to be officiated, where two identical challenges result in very different outcomes depending on what area of the pitch they occur.  Its an annoyance of mine how many free kicks get awarded for nothing challenges in the middle of the pitch, that wouldn’t even be considered close to a penalty if it happened in the box. 
 

This is obviously complete guesswork, but if you were able to analyse all the free kicks given  within 10 yards of the half way line, and then asked yourself if that same challenge would have been given as a penalty if it happened inside the box, I would say about 50% of the time the referee would not award a penalty. How many times do you see a soft free kick given for a striker backing into a defender on the half way line, and compare it to how many times you’ve seen a penalty awarded at a corner or free kick when a defender does similar to an attacker. 

Excellent post. It was still a penalty tonight though. His arm is not right by his side, and it is making his body unnaturally bigger. You can tell that Welsh thinks it’s a penalty because he immediately panics and puts his right arm behind his back after the ball hits his left hand.

[kingjoey]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Wilkos said:

Ferguson is not exempt from criticsm - and I would respectfully disagree that Campbell has been better than Ferguson for the last two matches - but, Ferguson has been the standout midfielder who is willing to drive into the opposition's box since we signed him. He's the guy who gets his body between players in the penalty area, play passes behind defences, and generally takes responsibility for the middle of the park.

Is Campbell going to be your new Scott Wright?

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Wilkos said:

Ferguson is not exempt from criticsm - and I would respectfully disagree that Campbell has been better than Ferguson for the last two matches - but, Ferguson has been the standout midfielder who is willing to drive into the opposition's box since we signed him. He's the guy who gets his body between players in the penalty area, play passes behind defences, and generally takes responsibility for the middle of the park.

Ferguson is ahead of Campbell at this stage in their careers. I don't think that could ever be up for debate.

I was being slightly facetious due to the defensive nature of G Man's post.

1 minute ago, kingjoey said:

Excellent post. It was still a penalty tonight though. His arm is not right by his side, and it is making his body unnaturally bigger. You can tell that Welsh thinks it’s a penalty because he immediately panics and puts his right arm behind his back after the ball hits his left hand.

Joey, come on now. Players panic over decisions all the time.

[kingjoey]

10 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Ferguson is ahead of Campbell at this stage in their careers. I don't think that could ever be up for debate.

I was being slightly facetious due to the defensive nature of G Man's post.

Joey, come on now. Players panic over decisions all the time.

Willie Miller has just said that it was a penalty. Case closed.

[IrishBhoy]

5 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Excellent post. It was still a penalty tonight though. His arm is not right by his side, and it is making his body unnaturally bigger. You can tell that Welsh thinks it’s a penalty because he immediately panics and puts his right arm behind his back after the ball hits his left hand.

I’ve only seen the clip posted on here, but the distance the ball travelled made me think it wasn’t a penalty, it almost looks like it’s been intentionally aimed towards his arm from about 6 feet away. 
 

I know there is plenty of fans out there aggrieved at penalties that have went against them for handball, as well as penalties that haven’t been given for them for handball, but I think it would be very harsh if incidents like tonight started being punished. The Erhahon one last weekend was a much stronger claim, as his hands were at head height and the ball hadn’t been struck towards him at any force. 
 

I genuinely don’t have a clue what the referees now deem to be hand ball. St Mirren were given one at Tannadice where Shankland jumped to block a shot with his arms tucked close to his body, and the referee had no hesitation in awarding that. But in a game against Hibs where a ball dropped out the sky from a height and was then almost caught by Porteous, that was waved away. The incident in the Aston Villa game last week where it struck Matty Cash’s outstretched arm on the 6 yard line, but wasn’t given because it grazed his thigh first just confused me even more, nobody can give a definitive answer on what constitutes handball now. 

[kingjoey]

10 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

I’ve only seen the clip posted on here, but the distance the ball travelled made me think it wasn’t a penalty, it almost looks like it’s been intentionally aimed towards his arm from about 6 feet away. 
 

I know there is plenty of fans out there aggrieved at penalties that have went against them for handball, as well as penalties that haven’t been given for them for handball, but I think it would be very harsh if incidents like tonight started being punished. The Erhahon one last weekend was a much stronger claim, as his hands were at head height and the ball hadn’t been struck towards him at any force. 
 

I genuinely don’t have a clue what the referees now deem to be hand ball. St Mirren were given one at Tannadice where Shankland jumped to block a shot with his arms tucked close to his body, and the referee had no hesitation in awarding that. But in a game against Hibs where a ball dropped out the sky from a height and was then almost caught by Porteous, that was waved away. The incident in the Aston Villa game last week where it struck Matty Cash’s outstretched arm on the 6 yard line, but wasn’t given because it grazed his thigh first just confused me even more, nobody can give a definitive answer on what constitutes handball now. 

You speak sense for the most part, but the distance that the ball is fired at a player to hit his hand has nothing to do with whether it’s a penalty or not, and just for the pundits on the BBC, neither has intent. 

[Jinky67]

46 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

That is absolutely not even close to being a penalty. His arms is by his side until the ball is blasted against it, and it's only sent upwards by the force of the ball.

This

Hes about 2-3 yards from the ball. Arms at his side which is a completely natural and neutral position and the ball is skelped off his arm.

Genuinely bonkers anyone thinks otherwise.

But that’s Scottish football for you

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Jinky67

[Steve_Wilkos]

30 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Is Campbell going to be your new Scott Wright?

If you mean my new hate figure  - and let's be fair I correctly sniffed Wright out years ago as one of them- absolutley not. 

[IrishBhoy]

32 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

You speak sense for the most part, but the distance that the ball is fired at a player to hit his hand has nothing to do with whether it’s a penalty or not, and just for the pundits on the BBC, neither has intent. 

Fair enough, the hand ball rule really is a matter of opinion these days and some referees would have absolutely given a penalty for that. 
 

Although you are correct that the distance between the ball and hand doesn’t necessarily dictate wether it’s a penalty or not, the rule does say that hand ball will only be penalised if the player makes himself ‘unnaturally bigger’ i.e. an outstretched arm away from the bodies natural silhouette. Looking at where Welsh is and his body/arm movement as he jockeys Kamberi, I would say his arm is in a very natural position, I don’t know where else he could put it apart from behind his back. If his arm had been up around chest height and it hit his hand I think you would have had a much stronger claim. 
 

When I played football I was right back, and I think my body position would have been very similar to Welsh. If a ball had hit my hand in that same manner after being struck from 6 feet away, and it resulted in a penalty, I would be pretty annoyed to say the least. That’s just my personal opinion, as much as I would have enjoyed Aberdeen getting a penalty against Celtic, I wouldn’t want to see St Mirren penalised in the same way. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by IrishBhoy