Scotland squad face March 2021

[Widge]

11 minutes ago, G51 said:

I have watched Kerr, that's why I'm asking the question. He's not got the ball progression skills of McTominay or Tierney, so I don't see the advantage of effectively swapping Jack or McGregor for Kerr. I'm not sure I see the argument for him as a backup either, but then I'm not fully convinced by any of the backup options at outside CB.

Agree on Porteous - touched on it in the Patterson thread, but we need players who are good decision makers. They can't self-destruct by giving away stupid fouls in dangerous areas. The Scotland gameplan works providing we don't kill ourselves with bad decisions. Patterson will likely improve his decision making with experience, but Porteous has played over 100 professional games now and he's still rash as hell. It's what is stopping him from making the next step up.

You say progression skills, but are comparing him to a midfielder and a fullback, you'd expect them to have better ball playing ability by virtue of their training and careers to date. It's fairly clear that McTominay should be in Scotland's midfield, as he's probably the player in the best form that we have and is very good at hat he does, something Scotland need a lot of the time being on the back foot.

You wouldn't be dropping McGregor or Jack at all, because Kerr isn't going to be a starter, merely a potential useful option in the squad to allow you to move McTominay forward if needs be, or play with a little more attacking impetus down that flank. You'd be better comparing Kerr to those who play his position on the right hand side of a back 3 that have been in the squad in recent years, so against the likes of Porteous, etc he would come out favourably by being virtue of a better defender. 

Like I say its all moot, as there are that many players who deserve on form, or are better than him. Such as Cooper, Gallagher, Hanley, McKenna, etc. I don't necessarily think they're all better players, but based on previous there isn't a place for Kerr in the squad. He should however certainly be up for consideration given the type of players we are picking and have picked previously. 

Either way, I'm not going to labour the point. Do I rate Kerr, yes. Do It think he should play for Scotland, no. Do I think he potentially could if trusted, absolutely. 

[RandomGuy.]

29 minutes ago, G51 said:

But what does controlling the right flank mean?

To my mind, he's a good ball carrier. He's good at winning fouls and he can win aerial duels in both boxes, in addition to open play where he's likely to be a mismatch against the opposition fullback/wingback.

Yeah, you've answered it yourself.

He's physically mismatched against almost every wide player we meet, so can dominate them 1v1. Doesn't need players to link with, doesn't need players to double up with him defensively.

[gannonball]

Guys there has been several posts now about Saint Johnstone players in the TA forum. Any more and Im going to the mods.

You have been warned.

[Old Bing]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

If you could show me a single post where I've said Rooney us good enough, that would be great.

You're clearly not reading my posts, and just answering as with generic responses trying to belittle me, so let's just leave this here.

Im genuinely not trying to belittle you. As in belittle poor wee st Johnstone. Im a morton fan.

But it really sounds like st Johnstone fans just want their players spoken about. What's the point in us or the media speaking about them tho. If their not good enough  by saints fans own opinions.

[Zazu]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

I have watched Kerr, that's why I'm asking the question. He's not got the ball progression skills of McTominay or Tierney, so I don't see the advantage of effectively swapping Jack or McGregor for Kerr. I'm not sure I see the argument for him as a backup either, but then I'm not fully convinced by any of the backup options at outside CB.

Agree on Porteous - touched on it in the Patterson thread, but we need players who are good decision makers. They can't self-destruct by giving away stupid fouls in dangerous areas. The Scotland gameplan works providing we don't kill ourselves with bad decisions. Patterson will likely improve his decision making with experience, but Porteous has played over 100 professional games now and he's still rash as hell. It's what is stopping him from making the next step up.

Not saying he should be in the squad, but Porteous has massively improved that side of his game this season. In previous years I'd have agreed with you but his tendency for poor decision making and silly fouls in dangerous areas has reduced a lot this year.  If he can keep improving that mental aspect of his game I could see him being a regular in the squad in a year or two. 

He's one of the better CBs in the league this season in terms of not giving away fouls, with a a fouls per game of 0.7 which is equal to Jason Kerr and much less than Considine and Gallagher who will both be in the squad. I don't have the stats for previous seasons but would imagine that it would have been much higher - there were times when he first broke through that he seemed to be giving away several silly fouls per game. 

 

[RandomGuy.]

Porteous is rancid. You just have to watch our first Semi goal, or Morelos at Easter Road, for perfect examples of him being too dozy to match any player with decent movement in the box.

Genuinely no idea why he gets hyped so much other than the fact he's played lots at a young age.

[Jamie_B]

The thing about Porteous for me is that I don't think he's ever had a good game against Saints - and certainly not this season. In the 2-2 game he basically has an assist for our first goal and is just stood there backing off and backing off for the second. He got pretty much bodied out of the way for our first two in the semi final as well. There's almost certainly a large element for Saints fans of having watched him against us and wondering what the hype with him is all about.

[Marshmallo]

My squad for the upcoming qualifiers:

 

David Marshall

Boab Allain

Zander Clark

 

Shaun Rooney

Stephen O'Donnell

Declan Gallagher

Steven Caulker

Jack Hendry (captain)

David Bates

Andy Considine

Kieran Tierney

Andy Robertson

Aaron Hickey

 

Scott McTominay

Ryan Gauld

Graeme Shinnie

John McGinn

Kenny McLean

Ali McCann

Steven Mallan

Jordan Holsgrove

 

Johnny Russell

Lawrence Shawnklun

Kevin Nisbet

Lyndon Dykes

Ryan Fraser

Stevie May

[Gordopolis]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Stevie May

Now we know you're takin' the piss

[ewan14]

10 hours ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

To be fair, the lifetime achievement award was why Jamie Macdonald got his call up at the very point he was about to be dropped by Kilmarnock due to lack of form!

As far as Saints players go, I think it’s fair to say O’Donnell and Gallagher haven’t had great seasons at Motherwell - but they were starters in the Scotland  team that qualified for the Euros so it’s right that they’ll continue to be included. We’ll need back up in those positions - so I think it’s fair to suggest that the likes of Kerr and Rooney, who have had very impressive seasons and are likely to finish higher up the league than Motherwell (and with a trophy to boot) should be in with a shout. Put it this way, if you were picking the form RWB in the Premiership Rooney would be higher up your list than O’Donnell. Same goes for Kerr against Gallagher. The added bonus is that Saints are playing a system not dissimilar to what Clarke plays and we know these players are very comfortable in it.

Absolutely agree with the bedding in period point though - I wouldn’t want to drop Rooney or Kerr in for an immediate start in a crucial Euros game. I don’t think giving them a chance off the bench against the Faroes would kill us though.

The more credulous Celtic/Rangers minded journalists on Twitter are starting to fire out suggestions for Nathan Patterson and Stephen Welsh. That’s obviously nonsensical given they have about ten professional starts between them. I can’t imagine they’ll realistically be in Clarke’s thoughts.

Hendry is used to playing in a back three

[ewan14]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

My squad for the upcoming qualifiers:

 

David Marshall

Boab Allain

Zander Clark

 

Shaun Rooney

Stephen O'Donnell

Declan Gallagher

Steven Caulker

Jack Hendry (captain)

David Bates

Andy Considine

Kieran Tierney

Andy Robertson

Aaron Hickey

 

Scott McTominay

Ryan Gauld

Graeme Shinnie

John McGinn

Kenny McLean

Ali McCann

Steven Mallan

Jordan Holsgrove

 

Johnny Russell

Lawrence Shawnklun

Kevin Nisbet

Lyndon Dykes

Ryan Fraser

Stevie May

Ali McCannot play for Scotland

( unless we persuade him to change his mind )

[Craigieboy86]

3 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

My squad for the upcoming qualifiers:

 

David Marshall

Boab Allain

Zander Clark

 

Shaun Rooney

Stephen O'Donnell

Declan Gallagher

Steven Caulker

Jack Hendry (captain)

David Bates

Andy Considine

Kieran Tierney

Andy Robertson

Aaron Hickey

 

Scott McTominay

Ryan Gauld

Graeme Shinnie

John McGinn

Kenny McLean

Ali McCann

Steven Mallan

Jordan Holsgrove

 

Johnny Russell

Lawrence Shawnklun

Kevin Nisbet

Lyndon Dykes

Ryan Fraser

Stevie May

Ali McCann is N.Ireland after First cap with N.Ireland

[charger29]

Ali McCann is N.Ireland after First cap with N.Ireland

You can change international team as long as you play no more than three games, they occur before you turn 21 and none of the games are at a major tournament.

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

Playing 100 games for a club like Hibs by the age of 21 is pretty impressive. It's a pretty good indicator that you're a promising player, and have a high likelyhood of representing Scotland at some point in your career. Many such cases. 

On the flipside, still playing for a club like St Johnstone at the age of 24 is very unimpressive. It's generally a pretty good indicator that you're a bit of a haddy, and that nobody connected with higher level clubs considers you a good enough player.

I mean, if you're claiming that playing 100 games for a side who have been a yo-yo club between the top two tiers in your career is more impressive than playing 100 games for the past decades second most successful club in the country, and 3rd best top flight side, then I'm not really sure why you think you're incredibly clever here tbh.

It's just another example of utterly dense folk being unable to see past the name of a club.

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

Even still, I bet you still can't find a single Hibs player in modern history that's made 80 apps by 21 and not went on to play for Scotland.

Jason Cummings played over 100 games for Hibs by 21, and managed 4 minutes of International football. Clearly Porteous is on a well trodden path the greatness by playing fewer games than Cummings for Hibs.

Tony Watt was a St Johnstone player at 24, yet has more International minutes, a better career, and is currently playing at a higher level.

Almost as if the club you play for matters not a jot, and individual ability should be more relevant.

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

Tony Watt won his caps playing in the English Championship champ, before he played for St Johnstone. 

Oh...

7 hours ago, Baptiste Bourgeois said:

On the flipside, still playing for a club like St Johnstone at the age of 24 is very unimpressive. It's generally a pretty good indicator that you're a bit of a haddy, and that nobody connected with higher level clubs considers you a good enough player.

... weird how you never made that clear until after its pointed out someone who played for us at 24 is better than someone who had 100 appearances for Hibs at 21.

This discussion is full of twists and turns, wonder where we'll end up next. Every post I make is a cliffhanger as I've no idea where you'll drag us next.

Edited March 13, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Rob1885]

Never made what clear?
That a player who's plying his trade for St Johnstone at 24 years old isn't good enough for Scotland?  Pretty sure I made that perfectly clear bud. I genuinely don't understand what point you think you're making with the Tony Watt pish? He won his caps playing at a higher level than St Johnstone, moved to St Johnstone, hasn't played for Scotland since. And this is meant to disprove what argument of mine exactly? Shall we recap what I said.
Point A. Player playin 80 games for Hibs  by 21 is promsing and is likely to play for Scotland.
Point B. STILL* playing for St Johnstone at 24 is a good sign you're a complete haddock of a player
Does Jason Cummings disprove point A - no
Does Tony Watt playing for Motherwell with an additional 0 Scotland caps since St J disprove B - no
 
*Noticed you decided to completely ignore this word btw. My argument against Kerr was that he is 24 and  hasn't played at a higher level than St Johnstone.  ANother reason why the Watt thing is a bizzare argument.
 

Complete and utter word salad this, fella.

[Rob1885]

Anyway, just checking in to advocate Craig Wighton earning a call up after a hattrick this afternoon.

[Aufc]

Can we just end this discussion by saying tony watt, jason cummings, jason kerr and ryan porteous will never be in the scotland unless an injury crisis because they are all bang average spl players

* disclaimer - porteous may develop if he focuses less on playing up to the crowd

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Aufc said:

Can we just end this discussion by saying tony watt, jason cummings, jason kerr and ryan porteous will never be in the scotland unless an injury crisis because they are all bang average spl players

* disclaimer - porteous may develop if he focuses less on playing up to the crowd

No, we can't, for obvious reasons.