Scotland squad face March 2021

[Les Cabbage]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbh very few Saints fans think Rooney is good enough for Scotland.

The frustration comes when our players are overlooked for less deserving players. Rooney has been consistently dominating the right hand side for us since coming into the team, and also poses a goal threat. Cadden is literally what everyone mocks Rooney for apparently being (quick, strong, no end product, easily caught out defensively), yet is somehow ahead of him. Kerr/McCart have been great this season, in a back 3, yet chat is that Stephen Welsh, who's been poor in a back four, will be parachuted into the squad before them based on about 5 games for Celtic, and if it's not him it'll be Jack Hendry, based on an apparent decent season for a mid table Belgian side.

It's just frustrating Saints players don't even seem to be considered. It's understandable when it's players who are far better, or who are proven at International level/trusted by Clarke, not when it's no mark players playing worse in the same division.

Riled^

[craigkillie]

The Sky journalist wasn't even claiming to be ITK, just expressing his own (terrible) opinion.

Hendry wouldn't really getting parachuted in given that he already has several caps and actually generally did fairly well in them. The whole notion of there being some queue that is being jumped is daft anyway, getting called up for Scotland isn't some sort of lifetime achievement award.

[ewan14]

17 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

"apparently ITK Sky journalist"

Who says he is "ITK"?

Himself

[Jamie_B]

7 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The Sky journalist wasn't even claiming to be ITK, just expressing his own (terrible) opinion.

Hendry wouldn't really getting parachuted in given that he already has several caps and actually generally did fairly well in them. The whole notion of there being some queue that is being jumped is daft anyway, getting called up for Scotland isn't some sort of lifetime achievement award.
 

To be fair, the lifetime achievement award was why Jamie Macdonald got his call up at the very point he was about to be dropped by Kilmarnock due to lack of form!

As far as Saints players go, I think it’s fair to say O’Donnell and Gallagher haven’t had great seasons at Motherwell - but they were starters in the Scotland  team that qualified for the Euros so it’s right that they’ll continue to be included. We’ll need back up in those positions - so I think it’s fair to suggest that the likes of Kerr and Rooney, who have had very impressive seasons and are likely to finish higher up the league than Motherwell (and with a trophy to boot) should be in with a shout. Put it this way, if you were picking the form RWB in the Premiership Rooney would be higher up your list than O’Donnell. Same goes for Kerr against Gallagher. The added bonus is that Saints are playing a system not dissimilar to what Clarke plays and we know these players are very comfortable in it.

Absolutely agree with the bedding in period point though - I wouldn’t want to drop Rooney or Kerr in for an immediate start in a crucial Euros game. I don’t think giving them a chance off the bench against the Faroes would kill us though.

The more credulous Celtic/Rangers minded journalists on Twitter are starting to fire out suggestions for Nathan Patterson and Stephen Welsh. That’s obviously nonsensical given they have about ten professional starts between them. I can’t imagine they’ll realistically be in Clarke’s thoughts.

[RandomGuy.]

36 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

Riled^

Not really, just trying to add some back story to this weird "StJoHnStOnE FaNs ThInK THieR HolE SquAD ShuD b CalLeD uP!!!!! Hahaha!!!!" trope that some absolute oddballs on here chuck about every time a Saints fan is disappointed their young, in form, Scottish player is ignored for some dross based on either who they play for directly, or indirectly through the "well they played for the U21 side while Saints player didn't so of course they should be ahead of them", as if Scott Gemmill is a great judge of player and doesn't just chuck in the players from the biggest clubs.

Edited March 12, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[craigkillie]

30 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

To be fair, the lifetime achievement award was why Jamie Macdonald got his call up at the very point he was about to be dropped by Kilmarnock due to lack of form!

In fairness to MacDonald, he didn't really lose form at all, it was just that by that point Clarke had clearly established that Bachmann was a tremendous goalkeeper who was much better than him.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbh very few Saints fans think Rooney is good enough for Scotland.

Its confusing this. Let's go over it again. 

So st Johnstone fans don't think they have any players good enough for scotland.

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

No, I was just explaining why Saints fans get frustrated about a lack of capped players.

But their frustrated at the lack of capped st Johnstone players.

 

[Jamie_B]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

In fairness to MacDonald, he didn't really lose form at all, it was just that by that point Clarke had clearly established that Bachmann was a tremendous goalkeeper who was much better than him.

What you would give to have Bachmann back!

[craigkillie]

2 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

What you would give to have Bachmann back!

Or MacDonald.

[accies1874]

I'd be happy enough with Kerr and Rooney getting called up, but they'd in all likelihood be backup stopgaps. Suppose I would've said the same about Gallagher and O'Donnell though.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Its confusing this. Let's go over it again. 

So st Johnstone fans don't think they have any players good enough for scotland.

But their frustrated at the lack of capped st Johnstone players.

 

You can simultaneously think Rooney isn't good enough for Scotland, and think he's better than Cadden and more deserving of a call up out of the two m8.

I've zero idea why that's such a struggle for you to figure out.

[gannonball]

15 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

How many players are included in this upcoming squad?

Judging by all the suggestions on here 400

[gannonball]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

No, I was just explaining why Saints fans get frustrated about a lack of capped players.

An apparently ITK Sky journalist on Twitter is claiming Welsh is "next in line", which is good because his pass accuracy is almost 90%. Comments filled with folk saying "if anyones deserving of a cap, it's Jack Hendry".

It's essentially just this section of the forum tbh.

I assume its this tweet you are talking about. He isn’t claiming to be ITK regarding this and is asking a question rather than making a claim.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

You can simultaneously think Rooney isn't good enough for Scotland, and think he's better than Cadden and more deserving of a call up out of the two m8.

I've zero idea why that's such a struggle for you to figure out.

It certainly is confusing, now he's good enough for the squad? A player who a page ago wasn't?

It sounds st Johnstone fans like you just want people to talk about st Johnstone players. I'd suggest that people would, if they were producing the performances to make them do so.

But to keep st Johnstone fans happy.

I think we should be looking at st Johnstone for players. They have some great players.

Edited March 12, 2021 by BingMcCrosby

[G51]

I don't see why Jason Kerr would get a call up tbh. Is he really tall and strong enough to fulfill the Gallagher role? He definitely doesn't have the ball progression skills to play outside, so he'd have to play inside, and I don't think he's any better at that than McKenna, Gallagher or Hanley.

Rooney at least has an argument but picking a guy who's ceiling has never indicated he was good enough for Scotland, on the back of three good months, is risky. Especially when those three hot months have resulted in 2 goals and 1 assist in the league. I wouldn't mind that if his underlying numbers were showing he should be getting much more assists, but they aren't. He's a good ball-carrier because he can run over people and has the pace to get by them, but it's a lot easier to do that in the SPFL Premiership than it is against significantly stronger and quicker international players.

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

It certainly is confusing, now he's good enough for the squad? A player who a page ago wasn't?

If you could show me a single post where I've said Rooney us good enough, that would be great.

You're clearly not reading my posts, and just answering as with generic responses trying to belittle me, so let's just leave this here.

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, G51 said:

I don't see why Jason Kerr would get a call up tbh. Is he really tall and strong enough to fulfill the Gallagher role? He definitely doesn't have the ball progression skills to play outside, so he'd have to play inside, and I don't think he's any better at that than McKenna, Gallagher or Hanley.

Rooney at least has an argument but picking a guy who's ceiling has never indicated he was good enough for Scotland, on the back of three good months, is risky. Especially when those three hot months have resulted in 2 goals and 1 assist in the league. I wouldn't mind that if his underlying numbers were showing he should be getting much more assists, but they aren't. He's a good ball-carrier because he can run over people and has the pace to get by them, but it's a lot easier to do that in the SPFL Premiership than it is against significantly stronger and quicker international players.

Let's just ignore his ability to control the right flank means we can overload the left and create 1v1 opportunities for Wotherspoon, I guess, as his xA numbers are low.

His role isn't to set up chances. It's to be both a RB and RW to allow us to overload elsewhere, and to be an aerial threat in the box at the back post where its intended he'll be 1v1 against a smaller LB. Saying his xA is low is the equivalent of moaning Ryan Jack has a low xG compared to Ryan Christie. Roles are important. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Widge]

4 minutes ago, G51 said:

I don't see why Jason Kerr would get a call up tbh. Is he really tall and strong enough to fulfill the Gallagher role? He definitely doesn't have the ball progression skills to play outside, so he'd have to play inside, and I don't think he's any better at that than McKenna, Gallagher or Hanley.

Rooney at least has an argument but picking a guy who's ceiling has never indicated he was good enough for Scotland, on the back of three good months, is risky. Especially when those three hot months have resulted in 2 goals and 1 assist in the league. I wouldn't mind that if his underlying numbers were showing he should be getting much more assists, but they aren't. He's a good ball-carrier because he can run over people and has the pace to get by them, but it's a lot easier to do that in the SPFL Premiership than it is against significantly stronger and quicker international players.

You've not watched Kerr if you think he'd be a Gallagher replacement, if anything he's better on the right hand side of a back 3 because of his progressive use of the ball. He'd allow McTominay into the middle where he's much better suited.

Not for a minute do I think Jason Kerr should be in the Scotland squad by the way, there are 5/6 players better than him or that rightfully deserve their place; however he's a much better player than Porteous that's for sure. Not that Porteous should be anywhere near the squads either. 

It's all a moot point, none of the players being mentioned should be long term players for Scotland, the fact that Shaun Rooney is being touted purely because he's in better form than O'Donnell is a sad testament to the current ability of Scottish defenders. Neither are remotely good enough for international football, but that's what we're having to work with for now. 

[G51]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Let's just ignore his ability to control the right flank means we can overload the left and create 1v1 opportunities for Wotherspoon, I guess, as his xA numbers are low.

But what does controlling the right flank mean? Does it mean he can defend 1v1? If so, then great, that's useful.

I think it's important we break down exactly what Rooney's abilities are. To my mind, he's a good ball carrier that doesn't necessarily have a lot of end product. He's good at winning fouls and he can win aerial duels in both boxes, in addition to open play where he's likely to be a mismatch against the opposition fullback/wingback.

Those are useful attributes to have, but I think the only one that really translates to Scotland is the aerial ability.

[G51]

14 minutes ago, Widge said:

You've not watched Kerr if you think he'd be a Gallagher replacement, if anything he's better on the right hand side of a back 3 because of his progressive use of the ball. He'd allow McTominay into the middle where he's much better suited.

Not for a minute do I think Jason Kerr should be in the Scotland squad by the way, there are 5/6 players better than him or that rightfully deserve their place; however he's a much better player than Porteous that's for sure. Not that Porteous should be anywhere near the squads either. 

It's all a moot point, none of the players being mentioned should be long term players for Scotland, the fact that Shaun Rooney is being touted purely because he's in better form than O'Donnell is a sad testament to the current ability of Scottish defenders. Neither are remotely good enough for international football, but that's what we're having to work with for now. 

I have watched Kerr, that's why I'm asking the question. He's not got the ball progression skills of McTominay or Tierney, so I don't see the advantage of effectively swapping Jack or McGregor for Kerr. I'm not sure I see the argument for him as a backup either, but then I'm not fully convinced by any of the backup options at outside CB.

Agree on Porteous - touched on it in the Patterson thread, but we need players who are good decision makers. They can't self-destruct by giving away stupid fouls in dangerous areas. The Scotland gameplan works providing we don't kill ourselves with bad decisions. Patterson will likely improve his decision making with experience, but Porteous has played over 100 professional games now and he's still rash as hell. It's what is stopping him from making the next step up.

Edited March 12, 2021 by G51