The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[DukDukGoose]

42 minutes ago, AJF said:

And right on cue, Rangers just announce that after discussion with the Scottish Government, we have been limited to 2,000 fans for our Friendly against Arsenal at the weekend. A complete joke.

If you were the government would you genuinely give Rangers a large allocation after the behaviour after the final game of the season? 

[ropy]

Is it the local authority that clubs have to work with and agree a plan for increased numbers?

[AJF]

8 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If you were the government would you genuinely give Rangers a large allocation after the behaviour after the final game of the season? 

I would give them an allocation that is supported by the clinical advice that allowed 12,000 into Hampden.

As far as I was aware, strict liability is not in place, therefore a club should not be punished for the actions of some fans that occurred away from the stadium.

This, of course, is completely irrelevant as this is not a Rangers issue, it is a football issue but some are unable to put club rivalry aside to see how ludicrous this decision and these restrictions are that are imposed on all clubs.

[AJF]

7 minutes ago, ropy said:

Is it the local authority that clubs have to work with and agree a plan for increased numbers?

Yes, that appears to be the case. Rangers mentioned in their statement that they'd had discussions with the SG and their local authority so I think you are right.

[DukDukGoose]

Just now, AJF said:

I would give them an allocation that is supported by the clinical advice that allowed 12,000 into Hampden.

As far as I was aware, strict liability is not in place, therefore a club should not be punished for the actions of some fans that occurred away from the stadium.

This, of course, is completely irrelevant as this is not a Rangers issue, it is a football issue but some are unable to put club rivalry aside to see how ludicrous this decision and these restrictions are that are imposed on all clubs.

I don't see how it's ludicrous. Smaller test events to make sure everything is in place for August rather than going gung ho now and it absolutely turning to shit and setting us back seems fine to me.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I don't see how it's ludicrous. Smaller test events to make sure everything is in place for August rather than going gung ho now and it absolutely turning to shit and setting us back seems fine to me.

It's ridiculous because different rules are being applied to the same sport.

As I mentioned before, there are many questions that need answered:

1. Why is 2m social distancing required in stadia when Hampden was given a previous dispensation of 1m?
2. Why is 2m social distancing required in stadia when outdoor and indoor social distancing has since been reduced to 1m?
3. Why is a 2,000 spectator limit being set rather than advising clubs that they can allow in as many fans as possible as long as they adhere to social distancing requirements?
4. If decisions are made using clinical advice, why are applications required for spectators above the 2,000 limit subject to being granted based on the type of event?
5. For what reasons was Hampden allowed a special dispensation to ignore social distancing guidelines?

These are all questions that need answered. If we can be given an explanation for all of this, fair enough. Until then, I'm going to call it hypocrisy and double standards that domestic football has to abide by.

[ropy]

I think the onus is on the clubs to demonstrate that the points you make can be adhered to safely.

[The Master]

Strictly speaking the game at Ibrox on Saturday has been granted a capacity above the current limit. 

Glasgow is still in level 2 (500 fans) until Monday. 

[AJF]

4 minutes ago, ropy said:

I think the onus is on the clubs to demonstrate that the points you make can be adhered to safely.

But clubs are being told to adhere to stricter measures (2m distancing) than what was required at Hampden (1m distancing) or in any other indoor or outdoor setting now in Level 0. That’s the main point I’m making, domestic clubs are being treated inconsistently to our detriment.

[big al]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

But clubs are being told to adhere to stricter measures (2m distancing) than what was required at Hampden (1m distancing) or in any other indoor or outdoor setting now in Level 0. That’s the main point I’m making, domestic clubs are being treated inconsistently to our detriment.

You aren’t at level 0 this Saturday. Level 2 until Monday, so more chance next week of bigger crowds when into level 0 surely?

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, The Master said:

Strictly speaking the game at Ibrox on Saturday has been granted a capacity above the current limit. 

Glasgow is still in level 2 (500 fans) until Monday. 

Which I fully appreciate but there is no stipulation in the SG tier system that limits the amount of additional spectators that can be granted.

If there is a suggestion that if the game was on Monday (when we are all in level 0) then more than 2,000 would be allowed in, then I think that is even more ludicrous because any clinical advice on allowing additional spectators would not change whatsoever between Sunday and Monday.

[big al]

If the Rangers are allowed 4 times capacity of level 2, I look forward to Aberdeen being allowed 8000 for 4 times level 0 capacity next Thursday.

[AJF]

1 minute ago, big al said:

You aren’t at level 0 this Saturday. Level 2 until Monday, so more chance next week of bigger crowds when into level 0 surely?

See my previous reply. Also, this is not just a point about the Rangers friendly, I made all of these arguments before Rangers even announced we were limited to 2,000 on Sunday.

[big al]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

Which I fully appreciate but there is no stipulation in the SG tier system that limits the amount of additional spectators that can be granted.

If there is a suggestion that if the game was on Monday (when we are all in level 0) then more than 2,000 would be allowed in, then I think that is even more ludicrous because any clinical advice on allowing additional spectators would not change whatsoever between Sunday and Monday.

There has to be a cut off point, a date of change, so they have given it as Monday. The proposed dates of change have been made public for quite a while now.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by big al

[AJF]

1 minute ago, big al said:

There has to be a cut off point, a date of change, so they have given it as Monday. The proposed dates of change have been made public for quite a while now.

 

Maybe I’m not explaining my point correctly. The cut off point for moving to level 0 I entirely appreciate has to be set for a particular date and in this case is Monday.

But what I am trying to get at, is in the tier guidance for level 2 or level 0, this states event organisers may apply for more spectators than the set limit. So my point is, if any club applied for more fans regardless of what level they were in, then the decision on the numbers would be made based on clinical advice.

This clinical advice will not change between Sunday and Monday so whatever level the local authority is in is pretty irrelevant.

[ropy]

What have Rangers said about their negotiation with the council?

[AJF]

12 minutes ago, ropy said:

What have Rangers said about their negotiation with the council?

That they are disappointed at the small number of supporters being granted access given the precedent set at Hampden during the Euros and at other sporting events in Scotland.

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, Willie adie said:

Why does football have this sense of entitlement it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity picking a fight with the Scottish Government

Perhaps if it showed a bit more humility, less arrogance and self interest or would be given va more sympathetic hearing

You do realise the amount of money clubs have not only spent to play during covid, but lost as well, 

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

I don't see how it's ludicrous. Smaller test events to make sure everything is in place for August rather than going gung ho now and it absolutely turning to shit and setting us back seems fine to me.

Surely the test events were the euros and the fanzones? 

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, The Master said:

Strictly speaking the game at Ibrox on Saturday has been granted a capacity above the current limit. 

Glasgow is still in level 2 (500 fans) until Monday. 

500 fans in Glasgow stadiums you say, sure there was 12k at hampden for recent games