Sarah Everard

[Bairnardo]

He doesn't say "well they all have lovely bottoms" in that clip so I thought you were just against the general sentiment.
The skirt thing looks staged anyway although the female presenter seems uncomfortable.

Yeah I am sure she signed up for that [emoji849]

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, coprolite said:

You'd have thought so, but expert witnesses aren't perfect. 

No, but they can reliably say if someone is, or was, suffering from a mental illness. It's the only "tool" prosecution or defence have in such a case.

There could also be other witnesses to his behaviour. Ie had he driven to Dundee in his bare feet the week before. That would help build a picture of his mental health.

I think taking mental illness is harder than people expect.

[Detournement]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Yeah I am sure she signed up for that

The speed of her standing up and the cut suggests there was more to it than Morgan being an off the cuff creep.

[HTG]

4 hours ago, LondonHMFC said:

It happens so openly as well. 

Look at this from Piers Morgan the other day, on a live broadcast to god knows how many million. 

It is fucking rotten. 

 

Morgan:

 

[Jeff Venom]

The speed of her standing up and the cut suggests there was more to it than Morgan being an off the cuff creep.

I know your brand is to be a contrarian, but come on tae f**k. This is the same man who recently slammed a famous adult woman, on that same show, for posting images of her in a bikini on her instagram as "thirsty" and "creepy".

[DukDukGoose]

23 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The speed of her standing up and the cut suggests there was more to it than Morgan being an off the cuff creep.

The poor girl has probably stood up out of embarrassment and to get it over with.

She's clearly uncomfortable and annoyed at the situation.

[Fife Saint]

The guy is a fucking creep and it's been particularly helpful in throwing a spotlight on many lurking gammons who are now up in arms about some nonsensical free speech infringements unduly thrust upon Morgan.

[Gordon EF]

For me, the point about data really isn't about replying to women who say they might feel scared in certain situations with "Lol, have you even conducted a statistical analysis of the data you hysterical bint" or to downplay these things or to say "well actually did you know men are more likely, blah, blah". But if we, generally as a society, want to go about understanding and fixing problems, then data does play a massive part in that. The absolutely wrong way to go about things is to treat crowd logic as something that should direct us on this at the precise time when emotions, fear and anger are running at their highest.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gordon EF

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

No, but they can reliably say if someone is, or was, suffering from a mental illness. It's the only "tool" prosecution or defence have in such a case.

There could also be other witnesses to his behaviour. Ie had he driven to Dundee in his bare feet the week before. That would help build a picture of his mental health.

I think taking mental illness is harder than people expect.

It seems the psychiatrists were divided on the matter

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/19/calls-review-five-year-jail-term-man-strangled-wife-wales-anthony-williams

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 minutes ago, coprolite said:

It seems the psychiatrists were divided on the matter

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/19/calls-review-five-year-jail-term-man-strangled-wife-wales-anthony-williams

Not easy to make a decision. In the report I don't think the psychiatrist views differ. One says his self control was diminished, the other that he knew what he was doing. The statements are not mutually exclusive, both are probably accurate.

I think it would be for the judge to take what they could from both and then consider the sentencing guidlines.

[101]

2 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

I think the conversation about consent has been a big positive to come out of the MeToo movement. For far too long it was left in a kind of fog because it's a difficult topic and I think a lot of folk that are decent and well intentioned probably learned where some of their actions over the years haven't been.

However, I don't think lessons on consent are going to have much of an impact of people who do stuff like this. There's actions people take not fully realising they're wrong and there's actions people take knowing full well they're wrong but just don't care. If this guy has murdered this woman, he's known full well every step of the way what he was doing was wrong and he just didn't care.

The sad fact is we're never going to completely get rid of that kind of violence. And how we reduce it successfully is probably above P&B's or twitter's pay grade.

Yeh this kind of incident is difficult to protect against, one random guy blags his way (by allegedly using ID of uniform) to getting a woman in his car he then does the most horrific crimes on the woman. 

Harsher punishment doesn't work, if anyone knew the expected punishment for this kind of crime it would be a police officer. 

We are already the most watched state in the western world, you could argue that they are there to be a deterrent more than anything else and no one is watching just one stream 24/7. 

But things like higher police presence on patrol might mean that people feel safer walking around however I'm sure many ethnic minorities especially black people would say that leads the harassment via stop and search.

Obviously just now there are far fewer people going about their business late at night so less people to see suspicious activity and report it hopefully that will change with the end of lockdown. 

But in terms of my original point consent in films society needs to look at how we portray females, everything from consent in films to men handing over their daughter to the groom is this the society we want? I think it's all up for grabs just now and as every elected official says in the world "build back better"

[BFTD]

15 hours ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

It is scary the amount of women who have experienced some kind of sexual harassment. 

When I was 15 an older man who I did not know somehow obtained my mobile number and would masturbate down the phone to me whilst describing exactly what I was wearing that day, knowing what I had been up to, the route I walked home from school etc. I went to the police who told me to change my number. I was genuinely scared some creep was stalking me and they made me feel so stupid I left the police station crying.

That was 15 years ago but I would hope that if a young girl experienced that now someone would take it more seriously.

Your story is nightmarish, and it's alarming how many women seem to have tales about adult men trying it on with them when they were school age, or plain-old using them as objects to bounce their deviance off. Hopefully the spotlight stays on the polis for how they handle these things, as they definitely seem to have a had an, "aye, we'll get on it right after we solve all the murders" attitude until recently.

How many folk have heard grown men drooling over schoolkids, by the way? When I was a teenager, I used to get a ride in to college with a guy in his thirties and one a few years older than me, and the highlight of their day seemed to be when we drove past one of the local academies and they could ogle the girls on their way in. Seemed like really odd behaviour at the time, but it didn't occur to me that maybe that wasn't all they liked doing.

15 hours ago, yoda said:

Fair play to any poster who manages to take a topic about a woman being murdered and sidestep to "Yes... but men also get killed".

Somewhere, Banana's head is exploding.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

There's literally no depth Detournement won't stoop to in order to be a wee edgelord. Jesus f**k [emoji23]

[AsimButtHitsASix]

14 minutes ago, 101 said:

We are already the most watched state in the western world, you could argue that they are there to be a deterrent more than anything else and no one is watching just one stream 24/7. 

It was CCTV that led to the Police discounting the idea she was attacked/kidnapped on Clapham Common in this case was it not? I think CCTV isn't much of a deterrent but is useful as evidence. 

[Priti priti priti Patel]

29 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Not easy to make a decision. In the report I don't think the psychiatrist views differ. One says his self control was diminished, the other that he knew what he was doing. The statements are not mutually exclusive, both are probably accurate.

I think it would be for the judge to take what they could from both and then consider the sentencing guidlines.

I haven't clicked the link and don't know much about Scottish criminal procedure. Were there separate experts for defense and prosecution? Not surprising if so to see them using apparently contradictory language that isn't technically mutually exclusive. Expert witnesses, at least in civil proceedings, are a completely pointless exercise. The experts are always bought by the party they act for. If they can't deliver an opinion their instructing party is happy with, they'll just find a way of interpreting the court's question so as to investigate something else that will lead to an apparently favourable result. I worked on a case a couple years ago, pharmaceutical dispute, fourteen experts in total, all seven for the phrama company said the product was fine, all seven for the complainants said it came with a significant risk of death. Pointless.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

I haven't clicked the link and don't know much about Scottish criminal procedure. Were there separate experts for defense and prosecution? Not surprising if so to see them using apparently contradictory language that isn't technically mutually exclusive. Expert witnesses, at least in civil proceedings, are a completely pointless exercise. The experts are always bought by the party they act for. If they can't deliver an opinion their instructing party is happy with, they'll just find a way of interpreting the court's question so as to investigate something else that will lead to an apparently favourable result. I worked on a case a couple years ago, pharmaceutical dispute, fourteen experts in total, all seven for the phrama company said the product was fine, all seven for the complainants said it came with a significant risk of death. Pointless.

My experience is more limited in that the parties agree an independent expert and a joint instruction. We argue about who and what to ask but it means the outcome should be clearer...That's a the theory anyway!

[101]

20 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

It was CCTV that led to the Police discounting the idea she was attacked/kidnapped on Clapham Common in this case was it not? I think CCTV isn't much of a deterrent but is useful as evidence. 

Yeh and something that is useful after the event sometimes days later is fairly pointless in actually helping the victim.

[DA Baracus]

25 minutes ago, BFTD said:

How many folk have heard grown men drooling over schoolkids, by the way? When I was a teenager, I used to get a ride in to college with a guy in his thirties and one a few years older than me, and the highlight of their day seemed to be when we drove past one of the local academies and they could ogle the girls on their way in. Seemed like really odd behaviour at the time, but it didn't occur to me that maybe that wasn't all they liked doing.

One of those TV programmes that looked back at TV shows of yesterday covered this a bit. One of the clips was a 70s or 80s 'comedy' where some guys were drooling over schoolgirls and making horrendous comments about the white socks.

Even worse was some 'airy' news piece about a member of some band (possibly Sweet?) who had moved in to a house right next a girl's school. It was all presented as light banter but clearly he was a dangerous man who made no secret of his desire to shag (rape) schoolgirls.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

One of those TV programmes that looked back at TV shows of yesterday covered this a bit. One of the clips was a 70s or 80s 'comedy' where some guys were drooling over schoolgirls and making horrendous comments about the white socks.

Even worse was some 'airy' news piece about a member of some band (possibly Sweet?) who had moved in to a house right next a girl's school. It was all presented as light banter but clearly he was a dangerous man who made no secret of his desire to shag (rape) schoolgirls.

Yeah, I was just thinking that I remember there being a Carry On air in entertainment about lusting after schoolgirls when I was a wean. All good harmless fun, and the girls were always up for it.

You wonder how society ended up thinking that was OK, and what abhorrence we're going to look back on shamefaced in the years ahead.

[Honest_Man#1]

48 minutes ago, BFTD said:

How many folk have heard grown men drooling over schoolkids, by the way? When I was a teenager, I used to get a ride in to college with a guy in his thirties and one a few years older than me, and the highlight of their day seemed to be when we drove past one of the local academies and they could ogle the girls on their way in. Seemed like really odd behaviour at the time, but it didn't occur to me that maybe that wasn't all they liked doing.

When I was learning to drive, quite often I’d do lessons at lunch time. The instructor was a 60s age guy, and on several occasions made some very creepy comments when driving around the school about the girls.

Being young I just changed the subject and brushed it off as an awkward old guy trying to be ‘cool’ and have ‘lads banter’ with a school age boy, but looking back it’s more likely he was just a genuine old creep who needed his laptop searched.