Are YOU Voting for the Alba Party?

[Burning Barns]

16 hours ago, GordonS said:

I don't mean this as any sort of insult, but are you aware that you're a fundamentalist? It's fine, most of us are fundamentalists about something (with me it's climate change), but it helps to know how far from mainstream opinion you are. Because if you think Alba had a materially different policy on independence than the SNP, you're right out on the margins.

The only real difference was that the SNP had other policies, as you'd hope from an actual government.

First of all it would help if you actually knew the result of the election on which you express such strong opinions. The SNP got two list seats. Had they squeaked over the line in Aberdeenshire West or Dumbarton those would be the reason why they had a majority. On the other hand, had they failed to take Ayr and East Lothian they'd have needed all their list votes in South. The idea that list votes for the SNP don't matter is clearly just wrong.

As for D'Hondt, the purpose of it is to more closely match seats to party votes. You're not looking for voters to learn how it works, you're looking for voters to learn how to get round it. The intention was never to have proxy parties on the list. IMO we badly need to reform the electoral system before the next election, before this gets out of hand.

I know chances are you never bothered, but perhaps it would have been an idea to read the ALBA manifesto?  They have plenty of policies, several of which I posted on here before the vote.

You’re right, they kept two list seats, but they also lost two.  A paltry return, for over one million list votes across the whole country, wouldn’t you say? 

ALBA could have taken a seat on the list in the South of Scotland on 5.4%.

[betting competition]

5 hours ago, thisal said:

Independence movement got a majority of seats despite having slightly less than 50% of the vote. but that still gives them the right to call a referendum.  Weighting the seats with 2nd vote parties would only become an issue if their vote was to fall enough for them to lose the majority of seats. What happens in that case? They still have a mandate to call a referendum, but their popular vote is now lower and they will likely lose the referendum. Lose 2 referendums and independence is gone for a very long time.

Independence movement got more than 50% of the vote according to John Curtice. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by betting competition

[scottsdad]

16 minutes ago, Burning Barns said:

I know chances are you never bothered, but perhaps it would have been an idea to read the ALBA manifesto?  They have plenty of policies, several of which I posted on here before the vote.

You’re right, they kept two list seats, but they also lost two.  A paltry return, for over one million list votes across the whole country, wouldn’t you say? 

ALBA could have taken a seat on the list in the South of Scotland on 5.4%.

They could have had two with ~11% of the vote. But they didn't. They averaged, what, 2% of the vote?

The issue wasn't lack of time, lack of exposure or anything like that. The issues were numerous as to why they were so utterly unelectable everywhere. 

As for the SNP, they got ~45% of the vote and just under half the MSP's. The system worked. If they got more votes they would have more MSP's. I can't rail at the injustice of a party getting the number of MP's they deserve.

[Anonapersona]

If Alba had started up two years ago with trustworthy people they could have been a useful list party.

[Burning Barns]

13 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

They could have had two with ~11% of the vote. But they didn't. They averaged, what, 2% of the vote?

The issue wasn't lack of time, lack of exposure or anything like that. The issues were numerous as to why they were so utterly unelectable everywhere. 

As for the SNP, they got ~45% of the vote and just under half the MSP's. The system worked. If they got more votes they would have more MSP's. I can't rail at the injustice of a party getting the number of MP's they deserve.

Well, we disagree on that. 

Lack of time, lack of publicity and lack of resources as well, were factors.  Relentless attempts to render the party unelectable in the eyes of others by Sturgeon supporters.  In my opinion, that's why ALBA went from 6% in an initial poll, to what they eventually got.

[madwullie]

Whether you like it or not, the vast majority of exposure people who spend time online had with Alba were their supporters. 

You had a deeply unpopular leader, weeks out of a court case that no matter the verdict left him looking particularly shady to the public. Not to mention he'd just dragged the FM and Govt through an enquiry that outside twitter seemed to be nothing but a revenge motivated ego trip. 

You had supporters actively rooting to have NS lose her seat, spreading rumours about her, advocating spoiling ballot then alba on list, if not openly suggesting to vote tory/Labour then alba on list. 

There was pretty open hatred of trans people, combined with the questioning of the morality of LGBTQ+ people, accusing them of supporting legalising sex with children. The leadership did nothing to quell these messages. 

You were inexorably tied up with that arsehole wings, who has descended into open bigotry, hatred, and personal attacks against politicians who are extremely popular with snp voters. 

The whole message was wrapped up in explaining to voters they were too thick to properly understand the voting system 

There was absolutely nothing positive about the alba campaign, certainly not the vast majority on supporters online or even candidates in some cases. 

If you want to put their farcical showing down to a lack of time and resources, batter in, but I think even the most cursory glance at the last 6 weeks would show that there were far more, far deeper issues with how they presented themselves to the public than just cash and time. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by madwullie

[thisal]

49% of the constituency vote and 50.1% of  the regional vote, but my point still stands.

* Answering a  post from Betting Competition that I thought I'd quoted.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by thisal

[Burning Barns]

15 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Whether you like it or not, the vast majority of exposure people who spend time online had with Alba were their supporters. 

You had a deeply unpopular leader, weeks out of a court case that no matter the verdict left him looking particularly shady to the public. Not to mention he'd just dragged the FM and Govt through an enquiry that outside twitter seemed to be nothing but a revenge motivated ego trip. 

You had supporters actively rooting to have NS lose her seat, spreading rumours about her, advocating spoiling ballot then alba on list, if not openly suggesting to vote tory/Labour then alba on list. 

There was pretty open hatred of trans people, combined with the questioning of the morality of LGBTQ+ people, accusing them of supporting legalising sex with children. The leadership did nothing to quell these messages. 

You were inexorably tied up with that arsehole wings, who has descended into open bigotry, hatred, and personal attacks against politicians who are extremely popular with snp voters. 

The whole message was wrapped up in explaining to voters they were too thick to properly understand the voting system 

There was absolutely nothing positive about the alba campaign, certainly not the vast majority on supporters online or even candidates in some cases. 

If you want to put their farcical showing down to a lack of time and resources, batter in, but I think even the most cursory glance at the last 6 weeks would show that there were far more, far deeper issues with how they presented themselves to the public than just cash and time. 

"No smoke without fire..." etc.  A not guilty verdict in a criminal trial is usually seen as a vindication of someone's innocence, not the opposite.  Your post is essentially the smorgasbord of smears which were used by "Both Votes SNP" folk, to ruin ALBA's chances.  The unionists barely had to lift a finger, in that regard. 

It was ALBA policy to promote an SNP vote on the constituency ballot.  Anyone who disregarded that, went against party policy.  It is ALBA policy to have a Citizens' Assembly on GRA.  That is not "open hatred of trans people".  No-one even knows if WOS is a member of the party.  Nonetheless, ALBA are not the "Wings Party", yet the idea seems to have been "act as if they are", from those online who felt that they had a vested interested in seeing the party not get off the ground.  

[Burning Barns]

38 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

What are you talking about?

The SNP did have MSPs elected via the list - 2 of them.

Or have I made a mistake here?

They held onto two, there were no gains through the list.

[HTG]

1 hour ago, Anonapersona said:

If Alba had started up two years ago with trustworthy people they could have been a useful list party.

Correct. They were established when the enquiry was done and Sturgeon kept her job. It wasn't designed to enable more indy choice, it was designed to be somewhere for the folk who hated Sturgeon. It was seen for what it was - an attempt to do what the enquiry didn't. 

[SandyCromarty]

52 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It was sad to see him after the 2014 referendum.

This time round it was gratifying to see someone like him getting his arse handed to him in public.

If I have sadness, it's for the women who were brave enough to stand up to him and risk everything in court and who then had to tolerate the manner in which he was acquitted followed by this utter charade in what was the Alba experiment.

Totally agree with you regarding the trial and the ordeal for the women.

He has now been judged and humiliated by the Scottish public at the election. 

 

[SandyCromarty]

19 minutes ago, Burning Barns said:

"No smoke without fire..." etc.  A not guilty verdict in a criminal trial is usually seen as a vindication of someone's innocence, not the opposite.  Your post is essentially the smorgasbord of smears which were used by "Both Votes SNP" folk, to ruin ALBA's chances.  The unionists barely had to lift a finger, in that regard. 

It was ALBA policy to promote an SNP vote on the constituency ballot.  Anyone who disregarded that, went against party policy.  It is ALBA policy to have a Citizens' Assembly on GRA.  That is not "open hatred of trans people".  No-one even knows if WOS is a member of the party.  Nonetheless, ALBA are not the "Wings Party", yet the idea seems to have been "act as if they are", from those online who felt that they had a vested interested in seeing the party not get off the ground.  

Correct, but the Scottish public judged otherwise last week.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Well, we disagree on that. 
Lack of time, lack of publicity and lack of resources as well, were factors.  Relentless attempts to render the party unelectable in the eyes of others by Sturgeon supporters.  In my opinion, that's why ALBA went from 6% in an initial poll, to what they eventually got.

This is batshit mental. It is not the fault of "Sturgeon supporters" that Salmond, despite his acquittal, is widely regarded across the board as a lech. "Sturgeon supporters" are also not at fault for Alba picking racist thickos such as Alex Arthur as candidates either. Alba were quite correctly dismissed by virtually the entire electorate, save for YesDas as a home for has-beens and nutters. Crying about it being everyone's else's fault is childish nonsense which belongs firmly in the bin, along with Eck's political career.

[Wee-Bey]

Less votes than UKIP won in the 2016 elections.

Just let that sink in.

[SandyCromarty]

I just listened to Salmond on the John Beattie programme, full of intent to carry on with Alba and emphasising that The SNP should go for a referendum now, which would be political suicide as we all know with the pandemic ongoing.

All expected nonsense and bluster after being shunned by Scotland. 

Best be like George and slink away quietly Alex, the public have spoken.

 

[Gaz]

Jim Spence giving it big licks on Twitter about how Salmond is going nowhere.

What an arsehole

[Burning Barns]

45 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

2 hours ago, Burning Barns said:

Well, we disagree on that. 
Lack of time, lack of publicity and lack of resources as well, were factors.  Relentless attempts to render the party unelectable in the eyes of others by Sturgeon supporters.  In my opinion, that's why ALBA went from 6% in an initial poll, to what they eventually got.

This is batshit mental. It is not the fault of "Sturgeon supporters" that Salmond, despite his acquittal, is widely regarded across the board as a lech. "Sturgeon supporters" are also not at fault for Alba picking racist thickos such as Alex Arthur as candidates either. Alba were quite correctly dismissed by virtually the entire electorate, save for YesDas as a home for has-beens and nutters. Crying about it being everyone's else's fault is childish nonsense which belongs firmly in the bin, along with Eck's political career.

Just to be clear, you think that no-one who supports Nicola Sturgeon, said anything to attempt to dissuade people from giving their list vote to ALBA during the election campaign?

[Granny Danger]

8 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

I just listened to Salmond on the John Beattie programme, full of intent to carry on with Alba and emphasising that The SNP should go for a referendum now, which would be political suicide as we all know with the pandemic ongoing.

All expected nonsense and bluster after being shunned by Scotland. 

Best be like George and slink away quietly Alex, the public have spoken.

 

He’d love nothing better than see Sturgeon fail.  Useless bitter old arsehole.

[Burning Barns]

13 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Less votes than UKIP won in the 2016 elections.

Just let that sink in.

As far as I know, they were included in at least one of the televised debates.  As well as that, they received even more publicity by virtue of the fact that they were seen as part of the English political landscape, through England's political coverage in relation to Brexit.  Their then leader, Farage, was on television/radio, on pretty much a daily basis.  

Not a great comparison, really.

[BigDoddyKane]

Independence shouldnt be about any individual , Salmonds time is clearly past and Sturgeon shouldnt be the one and only either. Moving on to Indy2 it needs more than  her to get it across the line so others have to step up from either in the SNP or outwith or both would be better

Edited May 10, 2021 by BigDoddyKane