Season ticket sales

[DukDukGoose]

5 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

This is the issue for me.

I was actually talking about this very issue with a mate a couple of nights ago. We both used to live in Korea and went to watch football there a lot. Typically the price was a third-ish of Scottish Premiership prices.

Generally good stadiums with good views and affordable transport links. The average cost of a day at the fitba was buttons compared to going in Scotland. And you could invite along friends who weren't really into it and they'd come along because the price wasn't prohibitive and you can get a beer and make a day of it. I wouldn't dream of asking a non-fan to come and pay the thick end of thirty quid to see a Scottish Premiership game. I'd feel silly asking.

The Scottish league isn't hugely different in level to the K-League. Probably slightly better overall, but nowhere near as much in it as many will imagine. Certainly not a noticeable difference when you're just watching a game. But the jump in price is incredible.

That said, Hearts, for example, will argue that attendances in recent years relative to capacity have been good, so they will feel justified in charging what they do. But I think when it comes to away fans especially more should be done to encourage a crowd along.

What's the average wage comparison of the players?

[Guest TheJTS98]

51 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

What's the average wage comparison of the players?

Hard to be sure, but a quick check shows that the likes of Ulsan Hyundai have a wage budget (from best figures available, I'm never sure how anyone knows this stuff) of around twice Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs etc * ETA - what I found was average salary so not necessarily the same.

Clubs like Jeonbuk, FC Seoul, Pohang, Suwon etc are not shy about bringing in foreigners who have often played at a decent level, and they pay them a reasonable whack to be there. A good chunk of the Korean national team play there too.

Korea is the most successful league in the Asian CL, and Uslan are the current ACL champions. I doubt any Scottish sides would win it. The non-OF sides would have no hope.

Not sure how the lower down clubs will compare. But the big Korean clubs pay a decent wage.

Paying three times as much to watch Hearts v Aberdeen as Ulsan v Jeonbuk is absolutely taking the piss.

Edited September 4, 2021 by TheJTS98

[johnnydun]

On 03/09/2021 at 09:30, jamamafegan said:

 

£117 is crazy for a game of football. It’s completely unacceptable.

Scottish fans are being completely ripped off. I don’t believe season tickets offer good value for money. As someone mentioned earlier, you miss a couple of games and you are out of pocket. Then you are left with PATG. I believe this season the ticket price for a St Johnstone home game is £25 quid. For the happy clapping diehards they’ll pay anything, they don’t care. What if you want try and get a friend to join you who doesn’t really go to games? “Alright mate - do you fancy getting the bus to the outskirts of town to sit in a dull, cold stadium that’s half empty? It’s £25 quid to get in.” Good luck with that one. You might snare someone who doesn’t know any better but there’s a good chance they won’t be back.

People think the MLS is w**k but if there’s one thing they get right it’s how to make a football game an event and create a festival like atmosphere. Stadiums have beer halls and food courts. They are vibrant, colourful and there’s an atmosphere. The Australian A League is similar. There’s more reason to make the journey to the stadium, there’s more to do for the fair weather fan.

 

I think if you reduced the entry price from the £25 down to £20, I don't think numbers would increase any. I think they would have to reduce it to £15 for the supporters that are not as invested as the regular ones to come every week. At that price I don't think the club would make as much, even with the extra support.

I agree with you 100% about the match day experience, it needs to be made more of a day out thing, with things going on outside the stands for the kids, food courts and bars inside, the SPFL could maybe learn how to trust us with perhaps a 2 drink per ticket limit? But things definitely need to move on from paying £25-£30 for 90 mins in a seat then leaving.

[lubo_blaha]

Scottish clubs bring in the highest % of income from ticket money of any country in Europe by some distance (43%) and the 11th highest income per attendee. Our lack of TV, commercial and transfer income plays a part in this of course.

We also have the highest crowds per capita in Europe (we would be up there even without the old firm) and probably have close to 200,000 season tickets holders across the SPFL.

Clubs know that they have a bulk of support who will go even if it’s not good value for money, so any drops in price will reduce the amount of money they bring in from that group. It has been proven countless times that fans are not price reactive; any reduction in ticket price that clubs have tried hasn’t led to a worthwhile uptake. Clubs make most of their money off people going every week and I don’t think dropping the price by £5 or £10 is going to turn many people from going now and again into going every week.

That said, £30 to watch Dundee United is taking the piss.

[Lothiangamer]

14 hours ago, eez-eh said:

That last paragraph doesn’t make any sense.

The first paragraph was a statement from UEFA, the second from me  Trying to show that the price structure for the ticket was based on not charging the home fans much more than an away fan. at least that would be my thinking on it. 

[Leith Green]

On 04/09/2021 at 14:49, lubo_blaha said:

Scottish clubs bring in the highest % of income from ticket money of any country in Europe by some distance (43%) and the 11th highest income per attendee. Our lack of TV, commercial and transfer income plays a part in this of course.

Think you have hit the nail on the head with this section.

A few years back we were in Norway playing Molde and got chatting to some of the locals. 

Molde is a wee diddy town on the edge of nowhere - nice tidy stadium but they get Hamilton-esque crowds. 

They had Erling Braut Haaland up front and OGS as manager. It was obvious that their other players were a level above us - how was this possible?  The league has a sponsor that gives the clubs loads of cash each year and each of the clubs have good commercial deals themselves. 

They dont need to rely on fans to subsidise the club.

Everyone knows that Norway is hideously expensive - our tickets were £10 for that European tie, probably the equivalent of £4 in this country, a figure that seems faintly ludicrous to us.

[Dons_1988]

At the risk of being called a tartan gonk, we’re at a significant disadvantage in a country where Scottish football has to compete with the premier league and England for investment. The women’s super league in England is now receiving plenty of investment and is accelerating at a rate of knots, something Scottish football will never see, despite the statistics around attendance. 

 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

5 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

At the risk of being called a tartan gonk, we’re at a significant disadvantage in a country where Scottish football has to compete with the premier league and England for investment. The women’s super league in England is now receiving plenty of investment and is accelerating at a rate of knots, something Scottish football will never see, despite the statistics around attendance. 

 

 

The big leagues in Spain, Italy, Germany and most of all England are essentially producing live entertainment as a by-product. The main business is broadcasting to a global audience. Scotland is not alone in being at this disadvantage these leagues are broadcast almost everywhere. Although we might be more exposed than most

The EPL introduced maximum price of £30 for visiting fans not out of the  goodness of it's heart but because if a broadcaster is covering Arsenal vs Newcastle they want to be able to cut to a reaction shot of hundreds of distraught/jubilant Geordies at key moments. In that situation the  supporter in the stand has basically  stopped being the consumer of the by-product and is now the raw material for the real product.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Aim Here]

On 04/09/2021 at 09:48, Merkland Red said:

What's the average wage comparison of the players?

If you google up the Global Sports Salary Survey, they have an annual report detailing exactly that, team by team, for a bunch of sports leagues, including the top tier of the SPFL. I think the last report was pre-Covid, for whatever reason.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Aim Here

[Robin.Hood]

6 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Think you have hit the nail on the head with this section.

A few years back we were in Norway playing Molde and got chatting to some of the locals. 

Molde is a wee diddy town on the edge of nowhere - nice tidy stadium but they get Hamilton-esque crowds. 

They had Erling Braut Haaland up front and OGS as manager. It was obvious that their other players were a level above us - how was this possible?  The league has a sponsor that gives the clubs loads of cash each year and each of the clubs have good commercial deals themselves. 

They dont need to rely on fans to subsidise the club.

Everyone knows that Norway is hideously expensive - our tickets were £10 for that European tie, probably the equivalent of £4 in this country, a figure that seems faintly ludicrous to us.

Regarding Molde. They have an average attendance of 6 thousand, does Hamilton get this? 

[Jacksgranda]

On 02/09/2021 at 09:41, Lothiangamer said:

I heard an interview with Davie Martindale a few weeks ago just before the first league game and he stated Livi had sold around 750 season Tickets, to state I was disappointed was an understatement. 4 good seasons, 2 top 6 finishes and a notional cup final and that was the best the people of West Lothian could muster.

Anyway it got me thinking about Season Tickets sales and where we stand in the larger Scheme of things. I am in no doubt we are the lowest season ticket sales, but what have other teams sold for this season?

No, I think it was real...

[DukDukGoose]

25 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

If you google up the Global Sports Salary Survey, they have an annual report detailing exactly that, team by team, for a bunch of sports leagues, including the top tier of the SPFL. I think the last report was pre-Covid, for whatever reason.

Cheers. Normally when I search for shite like that I end up with whatever shite the tabloids have printed.

[Dons_1988]

3 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The big leagues in Spain, Italy, Germany and most of all England are essentially producing live entertainment as a by-product. The main business is broadcasting to a global audience. Scotland is not alone in being at this disadvantage these leagues are broadcast almost everywhere. Although we might be more exposed than most

The EPL introduced maximum price of £30 for visiting fans not out of the  goodness of it's heart but because if a broadcaster is covering Arsenal vs Newcastle they want to be able to cut to a reaction shot of hundreds of distraught/jubilant Geordies at key moments. In that situation the  supporter in the stand has basically  stopped being the consumer of the by-product and is now the raw material for the real product.

 

 

Yeah I totally agree. The atmosphere is part of the package to be exported all over the world. 

The problem for countries like Scotland is we have no choice but to try and compete in the global market for investment but no c**t is really interested.