Handsome_Devil Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Even if you paid for it properly, tonnes of it is still subjective calls made by the same people who give the OF 90% of decisions anyway...all that'll happen is nobody will ever get the rare benefit of the doubt against them again. The only way we should even consider VAR is under the original premise of correcting massive game-changing errors (not minor errors, even if they're unfortunately game-changing). You simply find a way to adopt the tennis system of appeals, you get one a game, use if you're convinced you've been shafted and lose it if you're wrong. And even then I'd only do that because the direction of travel is clear, there's no way it'll be resisted for much longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Leith Green said: I would add to this that - in the case of England - they have multiple cameras, another remote ref overseeing contentious decisions / bringing to the attention of on field officials. Where will these competent additional officials come from? There are only so many refs from Glasgow and Lanarkshire that can be called upon today..................... I agree fully re goal line tech, but until / unless someone can tell me how we bring in VAR properly and pay for it, then GTF. Aye, agree with much of this. My club's stance has been pro-VAR for some time but as a fan, I just can't take to the idea. I also don't envisage a situation where our referees will suddenly become more proficient at interpreting some of the more subjective calls. Obvious ones will be cleared up, but this applies to them nowadays where there is an obvious decision happening right in front of them but they ignore or misinterpret it to the confusion of everyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Here's the thing, I actually liked GvB's comments about having to respect the referees decision, quite a blast of fresh air considering Gerrard, just in the door, went on to complain that there was some underhanded conspiracy that had been going on for decades. My issue with VAR is the cost, not the implementation. Larger clubs could offset it, but to smaller ones the cost of implementing it could have a far greater impact on their budget. In terms of output, I'm fine with it, I don't think it will make referees any better at decisions, I just think it gives them the opportunity to see incidents they didn't. There will still be the arguments as to whether, even with VAR, you will get the "correct decisions". We've seen it loads of times when a ref has a very clear view of something but interprets it differently to almost everyone else watching. Imagine there is a VAR call, a goal was ruled out by the ref but the VAR assistant asks him to look at it again. I'm not sure if the ref can refuse that request, but they can certainly review the footage and make the same decisions based on the same calculations he did before. All in all, I'm not against the idea, I don't want it to be a financial burden, and I'm not sure it will stop people arguing about decisions. It will, however, give us lots of new camera angles to argue over. Edited February 21, 2022 by Ric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatmygoal Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 From a general perspective I'm torn. It's a good system when it's truly used to clear up incorrect decisions rather than marginal subjective calls, same with offsides. But the way it's used in the EPL is still too pernickety for me. I've never been to a game with VAR but can imagine it's a pain as a fan in the stand. My main concern is with decisions against the OF. Given the vast financial gulf you always need a bit of luck when playing the OF. I can see a scenario where VAR is used to look for anything in the build up that to a goal that could be used to rule it out. Whilst these decisions may be technically correct they'd make it even harder to get anything from a game against them. Perhaps I'm paranoid! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Will be a great laugh at grounds that don't have a big screen as fans are left wondering why play has been stopped and what exactly it is that the referee is checking, all having no clue if the correct decision has been arrived at not anyway given they have no idea what is being checked. Will also be a good laugh at these grounds when fans are celebrating a goal only for it to be suddenly ruled out, with no one knowing why (and again, what is being checked and if the referee has got it right). Oh, no wait, it won't be a good laugh. It will be absolutely shite. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Will be a great laugh at grounds that don't have a big screen as fans are left wondering why play has been stopped and what exactly it is that the referee is checking, all having no clue if the correct decision has been arrived at not anyway given they have no idea what is being checked. Will also be a good laugh at these grounds when fans are celebrating a goal only for it to be suddenly ruled out, with no one knowing why (and again, what is being checked and if the referee has got it right). Oh, no wait, it won't be a good laugh. It will be absolutely shite.I'm not sure what the rules are for showing replays of incidents. I seem to remember it wasn't allowed in some circumstances pre-VAR but you definitely hear PL fans reacting to incidents being shown on screens. It didn't happen at international fixtures though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Why do Rangers fans want VAR? Are they wanting less penalties to bail them out? Surely you wan't to keep the status quo? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 29 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Will be a great laugh at grounds that don't have a big screen as fans are left wondering why play has been stopped and what exactly it is that the referee is checking, all having no clue if the correct decision has been arrived at not anyway given they have no idea what is being checked. Will also be a good laugh at these grounds when fans are celebrating a goal only for it to be suddenly ruled out, with no one knowing why (and again, what is being checked and if the referee has got it right). Oh, no wait, it won't be a good laugh. It will be absolutely shite. Yet another in the long line of "so who will be paying for all of this?" type questions that none of the numbskull pundits have actually thought through. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 hours ago, accies1874 said: I'm not sure what the rules are for showing replays of incidents. I seem to remember it wasn't allowed in some circumstances pre-VAR but you definitely hear PL fans reacting to incidents being shown on screens. It didn't happen at international fixtures though. The screens at least usually say what they're checking, e.g. 'Offside', 'Hand ball', 'Serious foul play' etc. But with no screens you're guessing what exactly is being checked, especially when it can be a while after the alleged incident has taken place. 2 hours ago, Leith Green said: Yet another in the long line of "so who will be paying for all of this?" type questions that none of the numbskull pundits have actually thought through. If pushed through and clubs need to pay for it, it will become similarly prohibitive to the 10k all seater rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 The proposal is that it will come out of the prize money for the Premiership, so it won't be prohibitive in any way, just a bit of a waste of money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just now, craigkillie said: The proposal is that it will come out of the prize money for the Premiership, so it won't be prohibitive in any way, just a bit of a waste of money. OK, you are making a semantic point in that the cost wont be technically "prohibitive" due to where the cash is coming from...................but @DA Baracus point is still valid - unless we take absolute shitloads out the prize pot the VAR end product will still be terrible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 It's not semantics. The 10,000 seat rule was being invoked as an example which presented clubs from gaining promotion because they essentially couldn't afford it. VAR would be totally different because it would not be paid for up front and therefore would not prevent any club from gaining promotion.EDIT: Premiership clubs share out something in the region of £25m a season in prize money. The SPFL are estimating a cost of £60-80k per club so roughly £1m in total would come out of that. A decent chunk of money, and in my opinion a waste of money, but still under 5% of the total amount dished out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: It's not semantics. The 10,000 seat rule was being invoked as an example which presented clubs from gaining promotion because they essentially couldn't afford it. VAR would be totally different because it would not be paid for up front and therefore would not prevent any club from gaining promotion. The chat is it will cost about £1m (so £60/£80k per club) per season. I believe the English Championship costed their VAR at >£12m per season. I am confused about what we are getting for this cash? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefki Kuqi Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) I'm confused as to why it would cost more than £1 million a season myself. It's all being filmed anyway, and granted you'd want additional angles and whatnot but perhaps we don't need to go OTT to get everything right. As has been pointed out, give the manager a responsibility. One appeal per half, another appeal if they get it right but only one. Don't check marginal offsides, or do but that's one appeal gone anyway. If its a truly terrible decision by the Ref we won't need every single angle, they'll just need to see it once again and know they'd got it wrong. I'm for it personally, can respect why others would prefer the game to be more free-flowing but in practice we get bogged down in shite anyway, would be nice to have a chance to properly address some of the baffling calls made in the league. Albeit I concede that for stadiums without big screens it will be quite shite, and perhaps that's what the big cost to the EFL Championship was in terms of having such screens installed? Pure speculation. Edited February 21, 2022 by Chefki Kuqi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I think Var adds to the entertainment, at the game you haven't got a clue what's going on and suddenly your team has a penalty. It works both ways of course and can go against your team, was surprised they didn't use it in the UEFA conference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 hours ago, DA Baracus said: Will be a great laugh at grounds that don't have a big screen as fans are left wondering why play has been stopped and what exactly it is that the referee is checking, all having no clue if the correct decision has been arrived at not anyway given they have no idea what is being checked. Will also be a good laugh at these grounds when fans are celebrating a goal only for it to be suddenly ruled out, with no one knowing why (and again, what is being checked and if the referee has got it right). Oh, no wait, it won't be a good laugh. It will be absolutely shite. This is pretty much exactly where I am with it. Some of the Scottish fitba games are bad enough as it is. St J v Aberdeen at McDiarmid earlier in the season was a good example, ok the ball hit Jenks arm but he then hit a great strike, it was the one genuine bit of quality in an otherwise turgid game of football. Var would've ruled (correctly)that goal out and we'd have had another shite 0-0. Var is its current guise looks for reasons not to award goals and I don't like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelheart Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Naw just naw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 51 minutes ago, Chefki Kuqi said: I'm confused as to why it would cost more than £1 million a season myself. It's all being filmed anyway, and granted you'd want additional angles and whatnot but perhaps we don't need to go OTT to get everything right. As has been pointed out, give the manager a responsibility. One appeal per half, another appeal if they get it right but only one. Don't check marginal offsides, or do but that's one appeal gone anyway. If its a truly terrible decision by the Ref we won't need every single angle, they'll just need to see it once again and know they'd got it wrong. I'm for it personally, can respect why others would prefer the game to be more free-flowing but in practice we get bogged down in shite anyway, would be nice to have a chance to properly address some of the baffling calls made in the league. Albeit I concede that for stadiums without big screens it will be quite shite, and perhaps that's what the big cost to the EFL Championship was in terms of having such screens installed? Pure speculation. If you do it in the way the EPL, or even the Championship propose, there is a requirement for an additional set of cameras (its not just "the telly ones") which can be used to determine these daft wee lines for offsides etc, a guy who can tell the ref if hes made a shop front of it, and - as has been stated above, big screens. If we are saying its just going to be some mason on the blower to rubber stamp a ref giving Rangers penalty decisions, then I agree, £1M seems excessive !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbix Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I think every ground has got LED hoardings now, you can stick a fancy scrolling ‘Check: Penalty’ on that with little outlay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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