VAR in Scottish Football

[Dons_1988]

“Sorry, we could do a do-over”

[Bobby_F]

On 04/10/2023 at 14:12, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

It is never good if the VAR officials are only looking at the specific incidents and not the actual game. How does he not know that the on-field call was offside? He was so fast with the "Check complete, check complete" and 30 seconds later he seems to still not know what he was being asked to review. 

Safe to say, he's done.

He'll be on the Saints v Rangers game on Sunday.

[DoingThe42]

The Guardian reporting that in the Premier League it will now be possible to correct a decision once play has re-started.

"VARs will now also confirm the outcome of the checking process with the assistant VAR before confirming the final decision to on-field officials, to avoid errors of miscommunication. The protocols should also allow for issues to be raised once play has restarted, which was not previously possible."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2023/oct/06/var-back-in-spotlight-henderson-backs-saudi-2034-world-cup-football-news-live

VAR never gets smaller; it only gets bigger. If they're doing this in England, we'll be doing it up here in a few weeks. The level of intrusion on the game continues to grow. Worth underlining that fans in the stadium will no longer be able to take a decision in the match at face value, even once the game has re-started.

And all this when the vast majority of decisions were always correct anyway.

If only this had been foreseeable when VAR was first suggested...

Edited October 6, 2023 by DoingThe42

[Dons_1988]

Gareth Southgate speaking a very simple truth about VAR this week. 

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, DoingThe42 said:

The Guardian reporting that in the Premier League it will now be possible to correct a decision once play has re-started.

"VARs will now also confirm the outcome of the checking process with the assistant VAR before confirming the final decision to on-field officials, to avoid errors of miscommunication. The protocols should also allow for issues to be raised once play has restarted, which was not previously possible."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2023/oct/06/var-back-in-spotlight-henderson-backs-saudi-2034-world-cup-football-news-live

VAR never gets smaller; it only gets bigger. If they're doing this in England, we'll be doing it up here in a few weeks. The level of intrusion on the game continues to grow. Worth underlining that fans in the stadium will no longer be able to take a decision in the match at face value, even once the game has re-started.

And all this when the vast majority of decisions were always correct anyway.

If only this had been foreseeable when VAR was first suggested...

The English FA or the Premier League do not have the power to unilaterally overrule the Laws of the Game. The only incidents where you can go back after play has restarted are for red cards for violent conduct or cases of mistaken identity.

[DoingThe42]

I don't know what the general feeling around VAR is among Scottish fans, since nobody has ever asked us. of the roughly 15 or so people that I go to games with regularly, one is pro-VAR. That might be my age or whatever, but it rankles with me that nobody ever asked what we thought, especially since we, like the countries mentioned, are a country whose football relies on the people who attend.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/08/protest-and-resist-fans-in-scandinavia-lead-backlash-against-var

[DoingThe42]

On 06/10/2023 at 16:44, craigkillie said:

The English FA or the Premier League do not have the power to unilaterally overrule the Laws of the Game. The only incidents where you can go back after play has restarted are for red cards for violent conduct or cases of mistaken identity.

Well, they did it at Turf Moor yesterday. The VAR check on Chelsea's last goal went on after the game had re-started and the ref stopped the game so it could be completed.

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, DoingThe42 said:

I don't know what the general feeling around VAR is among Scottish fans, since nobody has ever asked us. of the roughly 15 or so people that I go to games with regularly, one is pro-VAR. That might be my age or whatever, but it rankles with me that nobody ever asked what we thought, especially since we, like the countries mentioned, are a country whose football relies on the people who attend.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/08/protest-and-resist-fans-in-scandinavia-lead-backlash-against-var

We weren’t asked because they’d decided what they wanted to do and they knew the feedback would go against it. 

It remains an utter disgrace how they went about it. 

[Les Cabbage]

Not SPFL related but I hope the 34.52% of us are happy with that result tonight.

[Richey Edwards]

Don't blame me - I voted No.

[Dons_1988]

8 hours ago, Les Cabbage said:

Not SPFL related but I hope the 34.52% of us are happy with that result tonight.

Reducing it to ‘my team suffered from a VAR’ decision normally isn’t that helpful as it allows it to be dismissed as just fans complaining. 

The argument needs to be made at its core what does it achieve and what are the implications for the game. We’ve all benefitted and suffered from it numerous times since it’s been introduced and that’ll be the way for as long as it’s around. 

[Bairnardo]

15 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Reducing it to ‘my team suffered from a VAR’ decision normally isn’t that helpful as it allows it to be dismissed as just fans complaining. 

The argument needs to be made at its core what does it achieve and what are the implications for the game. We’ve all benefitted and suffered from it numerous times since it’s been introduced and that’ll be the way for as long as it’s around. 

The balance of decisions as you say will broadly even themselves out, but i've not seen and I don't anticipate seeing, one credible argument for how VAR has bettered football. I have however, seen dozens, or maybe hundreds now, football matches where I have rolled my eyes and went "fucking hell, VAR really is shite". And thats as a fan who doesn't routinely attend games with VAR in operation. I assume based on my experience at Hampden, that the issue is even more magnified for the fans at the game. 

Only absolute roasters want this in our game. 

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

The balance of decisions as you say will broadly even themselves out, but i've not seen and I don't anticipate seeing, one credible argument for how VAR has bettered football. I have however, seen dozens, or maybe hundreds now, football matches where I have rolled my eyes and went "fucking hell, VAR really is shite". And thats as a fan who doesn't routinely attend games with VAR in operation. I assume based on my experience at Hampden, that the issue is even more magnified for the fans at the game. 

Only absolute roasters want this in our game. 

The only credible argument is that on a statistical basis, the accuracy of decision making has probably increased. How much? Very much up for debate. 

When you then weigh that up against the increase in expectations of accuracy, you probably have a net loss. Then there’s the impact on the match going fan, the number of big moments spoiled by it, the fact that a huge number of ‘big’ decisions are subjective anyway so there is no technology on earth that can solve that, the complete departure from the spirit in which many of the rules were set - offside and handball being the main culprits. 

It’s an absolute travesty for the game. A genuine travesty. 

[Bairnardo]

13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The only credible argument is that on a statistical basis, the accuracy of decision making has probably increased. How much? Very much up for debate. 

When you then weigh that up against the increase in expectations of accuracy, you probably have a net loss. Then there’s the impact on the match going fan, the number of big moments spoiled by it, the fact that a huge number of ‘big’ decisions are subjective anyway so there is no technology on earth that can solve that, the complete departure from the spirit in which many of the rules were set - offside and handball being the main culprits. 

It’s an absolute travesty for the game. A genuine travesty. 

It's very much a scar on the face of the game for me, and as Doingthe42 already pointed out, the direction of travel is one way. The doubling down in the coming months and years will only get worse and worse.

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

It's very much a scar on the face of the game for me, and as Doingthe42 already pointed out, the direction of travel is one way. The doubling down in the coming months and years will only get worse and worse.

Yeah, the ship has sailed. They will throw more technology and strange tweaks to the rules before there’s a grown up conversation about what we actually want to see in a game of football. 

[deadasdillinger]

I already felt this way, as I think most do, but never more so than last night-

Get VAR so far to absolute f**k out of football. 

Last night was the worst I've been on the receiving end of it. An incredible goal goes in that would give our team one of our greatest ever results. Cue some of the wildest celebrations ever seen, what football is all about.

Then a few minutes are wasted looking at it, completely killing the excitement, before it's chopped off for the most marginal infringement you could possibly think of. 

Galvanised, the other team to go on to win. 

Given how wildly unpredictable, inconsistent and at times just plain wrong it is, no one will ever convince me it improves it as a spectacle or even from a point of view of justice being done. It's completely killing the game.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Reducing it to ‘my team suffered from a VAR’ decision normally isn’t that helpful as it allows it to be dismissed as just fans complaining. 

The argument needs to be made at its core what does it achieve and what are the implications for the game. We’ve all benefitted and suffered from it numerous times since it’s been introduced and that’ll be the way for as long as it’s around. 

Thankfully my team has never been on the end of any VAR decisions. I don't think we've ever had a game with VAR in operation mind.

But aye, VAR is garbage and it needs to get so far to f**k.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

The only credible argument is that on a statistical basis, the accuracy of decision making has probably increased. How much? Very much up for debate. 

When you then weigh that up against the increase in expectations of accuracy, you probably have a net loss. Then there’s the impact on the match going fan, the number of big moments spoiled by it, the fact that a huge number of ‘big’ decisions are subjective anyway so there is no technology on earth that can solve that, the complete departure from the spirit in which many of the rules were set - offside and handball being the main culprits. 

It’s an absolute travesty for the game. A genuine travesty. 

This is spot on. It has undoubtedly improved the number of correct decisions made, but it hasn't increased it to 100%, and it has demonstrably made the supporter experience far, far worse, whilst simultaneously not actually removing much controversy.

[Scary Bear]

VAR is the absolute death of joy. 

[Jamie_B]

On 13/10/2023 at 10:01, Scary Bear said:

VAR is the absolute death of joy. 

We scored a 95th minute equaliser against Dundee a few weeks back, having come from two down in a game where we’d been playing absolutely shit and the hubris level from the visiting fans was off the chart when they went 2-0 up.

In that situation you’d normally expect to end up three or four rows away from your seat climbing on a random and giving wild GIRUYs to the opposition fans.

In this instance though I thought the scorer looked potentially offside, so while I was out of my seat I was absolutely certain it was getting disallowed. Turned out he was level, but the moment was gone.

That fiasco in Spain on Wednesday highlighted the big issue with the implementation - the people in the stadium were given the wrong info and were basically completely in the dark and even those watching on tv needed clarification long after the goal was ruled out. The whole thing is a mess, and has just moved the controversy further down the line.

You’re not always getting better decisions - see for example the Saints v Livi game in which there were two huge game changing decisions - a VAR influenced red card that the ref didn’t give in real time, awarded after watching a slow motion replay and which was then rescinded on appeal, and an incredibly soft penalty that the ref was not invited to review, presumably because it was a subjective decision that wasn’t a clear and obvious error. Even though you could certainly say the same about the red card.

It is a mess of a system that ruins football matches.