TxRover Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Yep, I give up, there is no explaining to some people….they will simply grasp something offered by someone that backs their bigoted belief system and cling to it. “Biological sex” is shorthand for sex with regard to reproduction, which ISN’T what the subject is about, and which I specifically pointed out was different than what I was dicussing…but back to it he goes because it’s his blankie. Then we get the latest “contributer”… -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Primary schools go to see Widow Twankey every Christmas without hurt. Never seen a Widow Twankee with such a skintight outfit leaving no much to the imagination.* *compared to a recent drag queen kids event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, TxRover said: Yep, I give up, there is no explaining to some people….they will simply grasp something offered by someone that backs their bigoted belief system and cling to it. “Biological sex” is shorthand for sex with regard to reproduction, which ISN’T what the subject is about, and which I specifically pointed out was different than what I was dicussing…but back to it he goes because it’s his blankie. Then we get the latest “contributer”… Come on. There's no such thing as reproducive sex and then ?? Other kinds?? Chromosomal differences are not 'other' sexes. You're havering. Genuinely Havering. Plus I see you're back to stupid nonsense about blankies, because you have nothing but insults. Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Someone obviously wants banned. Mental illness? f**k me that's just utter pish. Both going on ignore now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I'm genuinely interested in this discussion. You can probably see it's not the first time I've thought about it. Apart from being honest about my feelings regarding that prisoner, I think I've been relatively calm. Ok, ignore discussion of views you don't like That's why we're here though, because of the demand for #nodebate and the claims about denying trans people exist. Etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) Like I said before, I never cared about this issue until fair recently. Self-ID is horrific. the idea that people can just say they are trans or the other gender now is absurd. What a mockery of the journey actual trans people have gone through for years. Self-ID allows people to say they are trans without transitioning, which is such an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Its a law that thankfully was so badly conceived that there is no way of ever making it a reality now. Edited April 10, 2023 by Thorongil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, f_c_dundee said: I'm genuinely interested in this discussion. You can probably see it's not the first time I've thought about it. Apart from being honest about my feelings regarding that prisoner, I think I've been relatively calm. Ok, ignore discussion of views you don't like That's why we're here though, because of the demand for #nodebate and the claims about denying trans people exist. Etc etc. Always the tyranny. “I do not like what you are saying even though you are entitled to say it, so I will have you silenced. My fragile ego cannot endure challenge to my worldview”. who do these narcissists think they are? That their version of the truth is not allowed to be challenged? Its a failure of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Quite the transformation. On 21/06/2022 at 09:36, Thorongil said: Great news from the sporting bodies. I used to be completely disinterested in this issue but the trans extremists have irritated me to the degree that I now want them to lose the culture war. And they now are losing. It’s very pleasing. On 03/04/2023 at 19:52, Thorongil said: I used to have absolutely no interest in Theo whole thing but I have changed my view and become unashamedly gender critical. I refuse to be forced to pretend things I know to false are true. 2 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Like I said before, I never cared about this issue until fair recently. Self-ID is horrific. the idea that people can just say they are trans or the other gender now is absurd. What a mockery of the journey actual trans people have gone through for years. Self-ID allows people to say they are trans without transitioning, which is such an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Its a law that thankfully was so badly conceived that there is no way of ever making it a reality now. 14 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Gender is made up nonsense for people who are suffering mentally, people who want attention or for people who are want to “transition” for convenience or expediency (such as male criminals who don’t fancy being locked up with other dangerous males). It’s all bullshit and I think deep down every human being knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Still waiting on details of the 6 sexes of humans... As regards the conversion therapy bill, the provision for helping people 1. worrying about their sexuality and those 2. feeling unhappy with their body or their sex - these are 2 different things. Case 1 might be trying to help someone deal with their feelings and internal worries about their sexuality. Case 2 - wouldn't you think that it's the right thing to do to explore with someone why they are so unhappy in their body? Just as we would do with any other person who felt that way? In case 1 there's no treatment apart from talking therapy. In case 2 though, if only the affirmation model is allowed, this isn't allowing the person to deal with their feelings and thoughts in the same way. It's another contradiction in this whole thing as well. We must move away from the medical diagnosis requirement, but also medical treatment must be available on demand. Children must have their puberty blocked so they pass when older, 40 odd year old men may just self identify. There haven't been proper answers given to these questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Quite the transformation. As is often the case, your post doesn’t make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Just now, Thorongil said: As is often the case, your post doesn’t make sense. I think they're pointing out you got a bit more annoyed sounding over a few posts? You're no allowed to be I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 36 minutes ago, f_c_dundee said: It was a wee joke to acknowledge the contentious nature of the discussion. I'll stay if there's interesting discussion, like the rest of us I'm sure. I've not heard you argue to disprove anything I've said really, plus we're still waiting for you to tell us more detail about the 6 sexes we're mistaken about. Go back and read. It may also help you realise I’m not @TxRover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 36 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Gender is made up nonsense for people who are suffering mentally, people who want attention or for people who are want to “transition” for convenience or expediency (such as male criminals who don’t fancy being locked up with other dangerous males). It’s all bullshit and I think deep down every human being knows this. !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Apologies if I've mixed up a quote somewhere. I've read everything posted in the last 10 or so pages (lost count now). None of it has been convincing me that I'm a misguided bigot. You've quoted many things which simply aren't true or gloss over problems. There is no good quality evidence whatsoever that transition regret rates are low, because the existing studies are not only deemed low quality (due to design, number of participants etc) but they failed to follow up on their patients in many, many cases. The results were reported early on, with no long term follow up. Autogynephylia exists, why pretend it doesn't and never allow it to be mentioned? "People won't pay for facilities for such a tiny minority" Ok, but the solution surely can't be that you take what you want anyway, because people want validation? This tiny minority has rapidly expanded from when the original GRA was set up in 2004, has it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Go back and read. It may also help you realise I’m not @TxRover Lost me quote again - was a reply to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 30 minutes ago, Thorongil said: As is often the case, your post doesn’t make sense. On 27/01/2022 at 12:13, Thorongil said: It’s not really an issue I care about and it’s largely an issue I stay away from because extremists on both sides of the discussion don’t allow any calm discussion to take place. 50 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Gender is made up nonsense for people who are suffering mentally, people who want attention or for people who are want to “transition” for convenience or expediency (such as male criminals who don’t fancy being locked up with other dangerous males). It’s all bullshit and I think deep down every human being knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: !!! Are you claiming that is never the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, f_c_dundee said: Apologies if I've mixed up a quote somewhere. I've read everything posted in the last 10 or so pages (lost count now). None of it has been convincing me that I'm a misguided bigot. You've quoted many things which simply aren't true or gloss over problems. There is no good quality evidence whatsoever that transition regret rates are low, because the existing studies are not only deemed low quality (due to design, number of participants etc) but they failed to follow up on their patients in many, many cases. The results were reported early on, with no long term follow up. There's plenty. Again, I've posted it. Autogynephylia exists, why pretend it doesn't and never allow it to be mentioned? Autogynephilia is the theorization of Ray Blanchard, notably on the radar of the Southern Poverty Law Center, who asserts that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, thinks transition is something to do with either demonic possession or Japanese cartoons depending on what day you catch him on and is taken seriously by zero health authorities. "People won't pay for facilities for such a tiny minority" Ok, but the solution surely can't be that you take what you want anyway, because people want validation? How, pray tell, do I 'take' a bed on a hospital ward? Surely that would be assigned to me based on where the hospital sees fit to put me? You've also ignored the bit where I pointed out trans-specific facilities would fairly obviously be targets for violence. Are you OK with that? 29 minutes ago, f_c_dundee said: This tiny minority has rapidly expanded from when the original GRA was set up in 2004, has it not? No idea. Have you got any figures? However, as LGBTQ+ folks have become more accepted by mainstream society, it's fairly unsurprising you'll start to find more of them as they feel happier to come out publicly. Same way as left-handedness in people went from 2% to 10% when they stopped beating kids for it in schools and then plateaued at 10% because that's the amount of people who are left handed. Edited April 10, 2023 by carpetmonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_c_dundee Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 If everyone can go and listen to (and I mean listen to an interview) a young person who was affirmed and eventually went on to medically transition, then realised they'd made a terrible mistake and thn say "yup, I'm happy to take that risk" , well I don't know what else to say. In recent years it's swung towards young women and teenagers left with permanently deepened voices and facial hair, plus having had their healthy breasts removed. Then realising that this treatment hasn't made them feel better at all, but they can't go back and undo any of it. They feel let down by the system that never questioned why they felt the way they did. No one is saying that all of them will feel this awful regret, but how often is too much? When they're left potentially sterile and with harm done to their own sexual function? It's brutal when you see the truth of it. That's the sort of thing that has convinced me that there's more to it. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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