The Gender Debate

[Guest Jedi]

3 minutes ago, Slim Charles. said:

I don't vote SNP anymore, but I have to give them their due here. I think they've spent quite a bit of their political credit here to get this through. Time will tell obviously, but I think it will put a small dent in their support.

Looks like JK Rowling and the Christian far right in the US are going to have to get the cheque books out again to keep this going.

I see Spain also passed something similar today. 

I don't think it will put any dent in their support tbh, as they have 40-45% of the the electorate in the bag.

Record in Government in irrelevant.

[Boo Khaki]

4 minutes ago, Binos said:

Or the energy crisis,  in an energy rich country 

Aye, makes you wonder where we might be if we hadn't sold off our oil exploration and extraction rights for pennies, propped up the destruction of our traditional industries with oil revenues instead of investing them, regulated the energy industry, and put an end to profiteering at the expense of consumers, given that we are indeed an energy rich country.

[Binos]

13 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Aye, makes you wonder where we might be if we hadn't sold off our oil exploration and extraction rights for pennies, propped up the destruction of our traditional industries with oil revenues instead of investing them, regulated the energy industry, and put an end to profiteering at the expense of consumers, given that we are indeed an energy rich country.

Or set up a national energy company for the next renewable energy revolution,  or even have a debate about it

But no, we've got more important things to talk about 

Collection of useless clowns 

[ConcernedReferee]

I have sympathy for people who have such an unhappiness within themselves that they have to change to feel better about their circumstances,  we all have things about ourselves we don't like, taking measures to change those takes resilience and willpower

[D Angelo Barksdale]

12 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I don't think it will put any dent in their support tbh, as they have 40-45% of the the electorate in the bag.

Record in Government in irrelevant.

Their record is a mixed bag. They've done some good things, are average in other areas and have also been shite at times.

Ultimately though, they only have to clear the incredibly low bar Westminster has set to retain their support.

[Guest Jedi]

4 minutes ago, Slim Charles. said:

Their record is a mixed bag. They've done some good things, are average in other areas and have also been shite at times.

Ultimately though, they only have to clear the incredibly low bar Westminster has set to retain their support.

It's more the nature of 'unqualified' support which many continue to have  eg

'Teachers looking for more money? The lazy swines..they are hardly ever there, don't they know we don't have any cash until we are Independent'

'Nurses looking for more? After all the support Nicola has given them?'

'GRA? Should be a priority, after all, it was in the manifesto'

That sort of thing 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Jedi

[Boo Khaki]

8 minutes ago, Slim Charles. said:

Their record is a mixed bag. They've done some good things, are average in other areas and have also been shite at times.

Ultimately though, they only have to clear the incredibly low bar Westminster has set to retain their support.

That's a perfectly fair and valid point. It's pish that it's really a choice between slightly the lesser of two evils, and I know my own support for Independence does partly lie in a belief that an undefined and arbitrary future will surely be an improvement on the status quo, but there you go. It is what it is, and I would dearly like to see a situation whereby our politics, Westminster, Scotland, Government, and Opposition alike is improved in quality all around, as that would surely be to the benefit of all, but I can't see it happening any time soon. In the time I've been politically interested, so since approximately the middle of the Thatcher period, there's been a continual shift away from politics of conviction and belief toward that of cult of personality, spin, soundbites, and culture pish, and they are all complicit in it and guilty of it. It's keech.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[Richey Edwards]

I am a straight male and have never wanted to be anything else. I therefore cannot begin to imagine what it would be like to feel as if you are trapped in the wrong body.

Anything that eases the burden and makes people's lives a bit easier can only be a good thing. 

[Guest Jedi]

10 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

That's a perfectly fair and valid point. It's pish that it's really a choice between slightly the lesser of two evils, and I know my own support for Independence does partly lie in a belief that an undefined and arbitrary future will surely be an improvement on the status quo, but there you go. It is what it is, and I would dearly like to see a situation whereby our politics, Westminster, Scotland, Government, and Opposition alike is improved in quality all around, as that would surely be to the benefit of all, but I can't see it happening any time soon. In the time I've been politically interested, so since approximately the middle of the Thatcher period, there's been a continual shift away from politics of conviction and belief toward that of cult of personality, spin, soundbites, and culture pish, and they are all complicit in it and guilty of it. It's keech.

A good post, and also a fair assessment.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Genitals are irrelevant in Scotland now mate. 

If you go to a gym or swimming pool it's lottery what you'll see in either changing room. 

 

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

That won't happen because it's self ID in name only and Police Scotland have the final say on who is what gender. Modern Scotland to a tee. 

It's an absolutely pointless bill that has only been passed to create headlines  and deflect from the fact that Sturgeon - who opposed Section 28 being repealed - has zero achievements in office other than passing Harold Shipman on the list of pensioner killers. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

And when did she get the nodding dogs in the Parliament to pass it?

Right after she made an arse of Indyref2 and right before they walk back calling the next GE a defacto referendum. 

 

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Labour were whipped and are exactly as useless a group of politicians as the SNP. 

I've no idea what the Lib Dems and the Tories are up to. 

 

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Everyone has skin in the game as we all identify as a sex/gender and how that is legally defined in Scotland has now changed due to the whims of Sturgeon's social circle and the votes of people who will vote for literally anything if it means staying on the Holyrood gravy train. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Sturgeon opposed gay rights as well when there was a few quid in it for her. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

To change sex you previously needed an (absurd) medical diagnosis. Now that is no longer required, you just need the nod from Police Scotland (and possibly the Prison Service).

To pretend that this is all just technical legal stuff is disingenuous as we have seen when other contentious bills are passed then are later used as justification to limit free speech. 

 

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

There is no actual definition of transphobes though so it's a meaningless term.

There are people who say that lesbian women who refuse to consider transwomen as potential partners are transphobes. That's obviously mental.

 

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

I agree with that but this argument is about more than opinions and feelings. The most important issue whether children should be given hormones to block puberty or now.

Given that we know that peer groups and social media can cause psychogenic illness and that diagnoses of schizophrenia are rapidly increasing it doesn't seem like a great idea to give children serious medical procedures based solely on their opinions of themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The Tavistock clinic court cases show that medical professionals are led by social norms when deciding whether or not carry out these procedures in children.

Were there decent odds on H_B turning this into a tinfoil-hat, attention-seeking shitshow?

Come to think of it, probably not.

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Or, another perspective - pick any political party other than the SNP that might have chosen to promote it (when the initial view was it garnered generally cross-house support) - and I sincerely doubt it’d still be so resolutely driven by those same posters. Make of that what you will. 

That is utterly pathetic, even for you. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

8 minutes ago, Jedi said:

It's more the nature of 'unqualified' support which many continue to have  eg

'Teachers looking for more money? The lazy swines..they are hardly ever there, don't they know we don't have any cash until we are Independent'

'Nurses looking for more? After all the support Nicola has given them?'

'GRA? Should be a priority, after all, it was in the manifesto'

That sort of thing 

I may well be wrong, but I've certainly not seen anyone on this forum arguing these points. Regardless, is the Scottish government not currently negotiating with the unions atm ? Would you rather they followed Labour's threat to send in the army to break the nurses strike ?

The GRA is an attempt to enshrine a bit more equality in law. Is this something you oppose ? Should it not be a priority ?

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Very liberal of you. 

 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11555915/Transgender-pervert-arrested-15-months-exposed-women-Wi-Spa-LA.html

I remember when this happened. Antifa/Proud Boys turned up outside the spa and started leathering people for being anti/pro-Trans.

What has happened to us? A bit of love and understanding is needed.

[Dunning1874]

The "doesn't a parliament have more important things to talk about?!11!!" response to legislation is always childish nonsense. If you have a problem with any given piece of legislation say what your problem with the legislation is, don't obfuscate with some bullshit that you clearly don't actually believe. Everyone knows it's possible for more than one piece of legislation to progress through a parliament at once.

This is especially pertinent in the case of a piece of legislation where MSPs opposed to it complained about it being moved to a vote as it was being rushed and they weren't being given enough time to debate it, then when it was before parliament complained that it was taking too much of parliament's time. Schrodinger's legislation. This was after they submitted over 100 wrecking amendments and continually tried to filibuster by raising dozens of points of order that were never actually points of order, extending the time it was before parliament needlessly to three days with two late night finishes when it could have been done in an afternoon if it wasn't for this brazen attempt to run the clock down and get to the parliament closing for Christmas without a vote.

[Guest Jedi]

9 hours ago, Slim Charles. said:

I may well be wrong, but I've certainly not seen anyone on this forum arguing these points. 

The GRA is an attempt to enshrine a bit more equality in law. Is this something you oppose ? Should it not be a priority ?

In a forum where it is the common narrative for most that the SNP gets everything spot on, I am not going to comment on the substance of the GRA.

[Dunning1874]

It's a very curious development that some posters who have no issues tackling the substance of other issues and have an objection to the GRA are either unwilling or unable to say why.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Dunning1874

[Clown Job]

Someone tell Joanna trans people are allowed to make jokes 

 

[Guest Jedi]

54 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

It's a very curious development that some posters who have no issues tackling the substance of other issues and have an objection to the GRA are either unwilling or unable to say why.

Given that on the Indy Ref thread @williemillersmoustache has said that anyone who raises any 'questions' (not even outright opposition to the GRA but 'questions') is a 'vile, degenerate, self-serving awful absolute weapon of a person', that might offer a clue as to why there is no point offering any comment on the bill.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jedi

[101]

UK government now openly talking about blocking it, apologies if this has already been covered in the thread but that is an affront to democracy.