O'Kelly Isley III Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Feel like a lot of folk are dreaming here. Russia will more than survive this. If anyone close to Putin was going to disobey or off him, they would've done so before they decided to invade Ukraine, everyone on both sides knew where it would lead. Putin would happily challenge a no fly zone over Ukraine, NATO has already shown they're nervous about WW3 so why wouldnt he gamble on them backing down? There is no scenario where Ukraine comes out this the same way it went in. Pretending otherwise is stupid and I hope the public announcements about "winning" from their side is just bravado and isn't what they think. This only ends without WW3 if Russia runs out of money or Ukraine surrenders at least half their country. A lot of sense there. There are no good outcomes here, only a varying degree of bad. One of the worst for me will be an arms race of F1 proportions in a world already buckled by Covid and obscene levels of economic disparity. And be sure of one other thing; however long it takes for this horrendous conflict to reach whatever form of a resolution, there will be a queue of governments, speculators, corporations and international grifters beating a very quick path back to Moscow as Ukraine disappears into the rear view window. Money has no morality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Ukraine merc'ing their own negotiatiors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 On 04/03/2022 at 08:34, virginton said: Putin is not immortal and the situation can and will change across the post-Soviet sphere when a succession takes place. All bets are off as to what type of regime will replace Putin's rule in the long term. Geez, not more of this unlimited sovereignty claptrap. Ukraine is at war with a much stronger power. It is not winning that war. Its civilian population are being killed as a by-product of urban fighting on a daily basis. And there is already a two-state solution. Ukraine has refused to recognise the loss of Crimea - it isn't getting that back, ever. That is the reality that Ukraine's leaders have to face. A ceasefire and de facto two state solution that takes a rump of the south and east is objectively much better than a war to the death, with countless opportunities for escalation. In exchange, the rest of the world can provide economic (as well as military) aid and resettlement, which would make the rump Ukraine much more secure and its people better off than it has ever been since 1991. And the rest of the world has an onus on getting both sides to make a serious effort for peace, because those risks of escalation are a threat to the future of humanity itself. The nationalist rhetoric of Ukraine is fucking irrelevant in that calculation. The issue for the rest of the world, is that this is naked, untrammeled aggression by the strong against the weak. As for your 'nationalist rhetoric' comment, what they want is the chance as a people to make their own choices of government , and what kind of place they want to live in. There is a tweet, and video clip current which shows the huge demonstations against Russian troops in the city of Kherson. The commentators words with the video are.... that in very Russian speaking Kherson, this is as good as it gets for the Russian assault. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Feel like a lot of folk are dreaming here. Russia will more than survive this. If anyone close to Putin was going to disobey or off him, they would've done so before they decided to invade Ukraine, everyone on both sides knew where it would lead. Putin would happily challenge a no fly zone over Ukraine, NATO has already shown they're nervous about WW3 so why wouldnt he gamble on them backing down? There is no scenario where Ukraine comes out this the same way it went in. Pretending otherwise is stupid and I hope the public announcements about "winning" from their side is just bravado and isn't what they think. This only ends without WW3 if Russia runs out of money or Ukraine surrenders at least half their country. Guy on Radio Scotland this morning saying that only a close coterie of military types knew that Putin intended to invade. Even the Prime Minister wasn't told. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kersey Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I really hope that this is true... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Paul Kersey said: I really hope that this is true... Pretty close to a "Post of the day" award for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, The DA said: Guy on Radio Scotland this morning saying that only a close coterie of military types knew that Putin intended to invade. Even the Prime Minister wasn't told. And you believe that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Just now, RandomGuy. said: And you believe that? Its completely untrue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Putin been on Russian TV again. Said there is no need for martial law or any other extraordinary measures and expects and hopes for it to remain thar way. Also said that any imposing of a no-fly zone (and specifically, the means by which that is enforced) would be seen as an entry by the country/organisation enforcing it into active conflict. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Its completely untrue. The same folk who rage at Russians believing Putins spin, and calling them all morons, seem awfully willing to believe the mammoth amount of shit getting spouted about Russia. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Thats approximately $100m worth of Russian air power shot down. Today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Thats approximately $100m worth of Russian air power shot down. Today.How believable is that tweet ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Putin been on Russian TV again. Said there is no need for martial law or any other extraordinary measures and expects and hopes for it to remain thar way. Also said that any imposing of a no-fly zone (and specifically, the means by which that is enforced) would be seen as an entry by the country/organisation enforcing it into active conflict. I see the requirement for a 30-foot long table is binned when surrounded by female flight attendants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 ^^^^ Meeting inside a terrarium.? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: I see the requirement for a 30-foot long table is binned when surrounded by female flight attendants. Say what you want about him but he puts on a lovely afternoon tea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: The same folk who rage at Russians believing Putins spin, and calling them all morons, seem awfully willing to believe the mammoth amount of shit getting spouted about Russia. The intelligence agencies were briefing explicitly that he was going to do it, with that degree of certainty post iraq then theres no way its only been 5/6 people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Say what you want about him but he puts on a lovely afternoon tea. Looks like mushroom vol au vents, cheese quarters, ham quarters with curly edges.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red23 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: NATO declaring a no-fly zone automatically means WW3 because it means all NATO countries have entered the battle. Whatever way you cut it, it's a declaration of war in all but name. How Putin reacts would determine the length and scale of that WW3 but make no mistake, it would be WW3. Agreed, I can understand the Ukrainian desperation for us to go balls deep, they have nothing to lose, other than the use of nuclear weapons. If we start attacking Russia, and China take Russia's side then i'm afraid the world is fucked instead of just ukraine. We won't be talking thousands of people, we'll be talking hundreds of thousands if not millions. Trying to reason with Putin is as pointless as trying to convince a Rangers fan they weren't illegally kicked out the top flight in 2012. Edited March 5, 2022 by red23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, beefybake said: Looks like mushroom vol au vents, cheese quarters, ham quarters with curly edges.... Don't mention mushrooms 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONTROOPER Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Shandon Par said: You know it’s a full moon when the Trooper shows up! Hope you’re doing well chief. Liked yer Grady quip on Off the Ball Shandon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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