Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alta-pete]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

I just have a sneaking suspicion that the military aren’t enjoying this war very much. The mercenaries and various cronies would be a lovely target to offer up to get the world off Russias back, especially since poor old Vlad suffered Excedrin headache number .357. A nice military junta “restores” order and away we go…

^^^ this is the correct answer. 

Can’t work spoilers on my phone soz, but PM me for a more detailed answer  

 

[Blue Brazil Forever]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

The Iran Iraq war was a weird one in superpower rivalry terms as whereas Iran had most of its military hardware supplied by the West, and Iraq by the Soviet Union, both America and the USSR backed Iraq in the war with resupply and intelligence. Much of the Iranian hardware was useless because of lack of parts and they were reduced to sending young volunteers to clear minefields by running across them. This last bit sounds like propaganda but I think it's true. Iran got their revenge by persuading the neocons to invade Iraq through agents like Chalabi, killing off Saddam, handing over proxy rule to Iran and sinking the US into a hugely expensive quagmire. 

I know this is true.

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 hours ago, TxRover said:

Let’s see, first strike was 4 rockets, or 180,000 x 4 = 720,000 of those little bb’s smothering the area…nasty.

If you stood on them you'd be skiting about like Bambi.

[highlandcowden]

11 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Napoleonic War was probably WW1

the seven years war probably

[jagfox]

 

[jagfox]

 

[welshbairn]

Ukraine's Ambassador to the UK saying that Lukashenko isn't mobilising troops because he's not sure which way they'd point their Kalashnikovs.

[Detournement]

That statement has backfired on him. 

If there is any historical analysis in the future rather than just memes the people that chose to turn their country into the European Afghanistan will not be looked on kindly. 

[welshbairn]

That was after Russia invaded the Donbas presumably, and annexed Crimea.

[Detournement]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That was after Russia invaded the Donbas presumably, and annexed Crimea.

When he says "they" he very clearly meant ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens. Millions of citizens of the country of which he was the unelected head of state. 

The same people who are not allowed to secede from Ukraine for some reason. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Detournement

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, Detournement said:

When he says "they" he very clearly meant ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens. Millions of citizens of the country of which he was the unelected head of state. 

The same people who are not allowed to secede from Ukraine for some reason. 

He meant people living in Russian occupied Donbas. Or do you think the little green men really were Russian serving soldiers who just happened to take their holidays there?

[Newbornbairn]

It's just more deflection tactics from the usual suspects on the day the UN says Russia is committing war crimes. 

[Detournement]

36 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He meant people living in Russian occupied Donbas. Or do you think the little green men really were Russian serving soldiers who just happened to take their holidays there?

Donbass wasn't occupied by Russia until this year. 

The DPR and LPR had support from Russia in the same way that Ukraine currently has support from NATO. 

Poroshenko was making hate speech towards Ukranian citizens based on their ethnicity. The idea that 8 years of war later that group of people wouldn't want to permamently secede is laughable. As I have said no plan has ever been publicly put forward on how to reintegrate 4m plus people from those regions back into Ukraine because (a) it isn't going to happen (b) the intentions of the Ukranian nationalist battalions are not fit to publish. 

 

[Sweet Pete]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Donbass wasn't occupied by Russia until this year. 

The DPR and LPR had support from Russia in the same way that Ukraine currently has support from NATO. 

Poroshenko was making hate speech towards Ukranian citizens based on their ethnicity. The idea that 8 years of war later that group of people wouldn't want to permamently secede is laughable. As I have said no plan has ever been publicly put forward on how to reintegrate 4m plus people from those regions back into Ukraine because (a) it isn't going to happen (b) the intentions of the Ukranian nationalist battalions are not fit to publish. 

 

Russia wasn't just supplying the separatists with arms, there have been Russian troops doing frontline combat in Donbas since 2014. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Well no, it's quite clearly relevant to the discussion of war crimes case - that this doesn't actually happen to any significant state or its leadership.
Do you even know what whataboutery means?

Bringing up war crimes from almost 60 years ago does not make current war crimes any more acceptable or ignoreable.

What are you going to use as an excuse next? War crimes in the Crusades?

You are increasingly a Putinust apologist using second rate "I know better" analysis to justify your stance.

Like evert other thread on this forum where you are an "expert".

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

Russia wasn't just supplying the separatists with arms, there have been Russian troops doing frontline combat in Donbas since 2014. 

There are currently Americans doing frontline combat, shitloads of NATO specialists in the rear and UK and USA special forces and intelligence services on the battlefield as well. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Detournement

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Bringing up war crimes from almost 60 years ago does not make current war crimes any more acceptable or ignoreable.

What are you going to use as an excuse next? War crimes in the Crusades?

The fact that war crimes from 60 years ago have still not been punished in fact underlines the point that contemporary 'war crimes' charges will also... not be punished. Because we continue to live in a world where strong powers play by entirely different rules in reality.

Quote

 

You are increasingly a Putinust apologist using second rate "I know better" analysis to justify your stance.

Like evert other thread on this forum where you are an "expert".

 

^^^ verge of tears

It doesn't actually take an expert to dismantle the litany of nonsense hot-takes peddled on here via Twitter, which include Putin going to The Hague and the Russians marching on Constantinople in the last 24 hours alone.

You seem to have a problem with such obvious nonsense being called out for what it is, with pesky facts and reason. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by vikingTON

[DeeTillEhDeh]

^^^ verge of tears
It doesn't actually take an expert to dismantle the litany of nonsense hot-takes peddled on here via Twitter, which include Putin going to The Hague and the Russians marching on Constantinople in the last 24 hours alone.
You seem to have a problem with such obvious nonsense being called out for what it is, with pesky facts and reason. 
 

Ah - the old verge of tears line.

Check.

Where's the Ainsley meme?

You are just utterly predictable.

Given your previous postings even denying there had been war crimes - I'd personally take your mewlings with a huge shovel of salt.

[Sweet Pete]

56 minutes ago, Detournement said:

There are currently Americans doing frontline combat, shitloads of NATO specialists in the rear and UK and USA special forces and intelligence services on the battlefield as well. 

Yes but the crucial difference here is that Russia was unofficially sending tens of thousands of it's troops to fight in Donbas from shortly after the Donetsk and Lugansk uprisings began. It was essentially a proxy war between Russia and Ukraine between 2014 and February 2022, much like how it was Chinese troops doing the fighting on the ground in Korea after the initial battles. 

Any private individuals from any number of countries who've volunteered to fight for Ukraine is not the same thing as a neighbouring nation sending it's armed forces into a country to fight and claiming that they're all just 'on leave' from the Russian armed forces and decided to fight in Donbas on their holidays and took their tanks and rifles with them, not to mention those who were actually in Russian uniform, or issued medals for action upon return.

[welshbairn]

30 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Donbass wasn't occupied by Russia until this year. 

The DPR and LPR had support from Russia in the same way that Ukraine currently has support from NATO. 

Poroshenko was making hate speech towards Ukranian citizens based on their ethnicity. The idea that 8 years of war later that group of people wouldn't want to permamently secede is laughable. As I have said no plan has ever been publicly put forward on how to reintegrate 4m plus people from those regions back into Ukraine because (a) it isn't going to happen (b) the intentions of the Ukranian nationalist battalions are not fit to publish. 

 

Both Donetsk and Luhansk voted by around 84% for Ukrainian independence, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia by about 90%. Do you honestly think that people in the likes of Odessa, majority Russian speaking, would welcome the Russian army in now with open arms? Hard to know what they think in Donbas but I don't imagine the women are too happy about their menfolk being picked off the street and sent to the frontline to get slaughtered, with pretty well universal conscription. I doubt they were told the price when the Russian passports were getting doled out.