Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: The only thing of value to Russia in Crimea is Sevastapol. Ukraine have just demonstrated they can hit the naval base with long range missiles and what's left of the Black Sea fleet has been pulled out so it's hard to see what use the place is to Russia now. Their navy needs a home warm water port. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: Their navy needs a home warm water port. I don't think for a moment that Ukraine will get Crimea back, but Russia have other ports available on the Black Sea, even pre 2014, Novorossiysk for one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 14 hours ago, TxRover said: The interesting note is that even if Russia holds onto Crimea, they have to find a way to replace the 90% of the water supply that Ukraine cut off after the 2014 invasion. Add to that the majority of the power supply into Crimea has historically been from Ukraine, the area is a millstone around Putin, and Russia’s, neck if Ukraine can fully control the head of the North Crimean Canal. Who controls the head of the North Crimean Canal today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Yesterday he banned trade unions in Ukraine. Maybe he will get around to banning Nazi patches next..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 59 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Zelensky and Boris Johnson doing a walk about in central Kyiv today. Since he chucked it in he's spent his time on jollies whilst completely ignoring the crisis in the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, Detournement said: Who controls the head of the North Crimean Canal today? Russia, of course. It starts at Tavriysk, flowing south from the Kakhovka Reservoir, on the Dnieper River. The Ukrainians built a dam in 2015 to close off the canal, which the Russians explosively demolished a few months ago. The amusing bit is the Russians claimed increased yields post water cutoff, but that was due to increased investments in machinery and equipment…and the numbers being fudged. Meanwhile, cultivated land in the Crimean area dropped from 130,000 hectares to 14,000 hectares over four years. Since the resumption of water flow in the canal, the residents of Crimea now have relatively consistent water supplies, up from 3-5 hours a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Detournement said: Yesterday he banned trade unions in Ukraine. Maybe he will get around to banning Nazi patches next..... Meanwhile a Russian Mayor has been arrested today for calling the invasion an, err, invasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 27 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: Their navy needs a home warm water port. Vladivostok, Murmansk, Baltiysk and Novorossiysk all provide that, so that's not what makes Sevastopol so strategic. More to do with offshore natural gas discoveries being a threat to Gazprom and making sure NATO is never based there. Crimea being Ukrainian thanks to a drunken whim (legend has it anyway) of Khruschev wasn't a problem when Ukraine was still voting in relatively pro-Russian presidents and the east/south of the country dominated in the rada politically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Vladivostok, Murmansk, Baltiysk and Novorossiysk all provide thatMurmansk? I wouldn't fancy a dip in that "warm water". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) Neither would I but being ice-free year round is the key consideration on this. The Kola peninsula benefits from the tail end of the Gulf Stream. Edited August 24, 2022 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: Murmansk? I wouldn't fancy a dip in that "warm water". Baltiysk is fucking baltic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Vladivostok used to need ice breakers for winter access until power plants started off loading loads of hot water to churn around the harbour. I think much of the talk of needing a warm water port comes from the 19th Century and before when powerful ice breakers weren't available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8MileBU Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: It's the only place he can go where people don't shout "w****r!" at him. “v****r!” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: I don't think for a moment that Ukraine will get Crimea back, but Russia have other ports available on the Black Sea, even pre 2014, Novorossiysk for one. 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Vladivostok, Murmansk, Baltiysk and Novorossiysk all provide that, so that's not what makes Sevastopol so strategic. More to do with offshore natural gas discoveries being a threat to Gazprom and making sure NATO is never based there. Crimea being Ukrainian thanks to a drunken whim (legend has it anyway) of Khruschev wasn't a problem when Ukraine was still voting in relatively pro-Russian presidents and the east/south of the country dominated in the rada politically. Fair enough, I stand corrected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Macron's told the French people they will have to make sacrifices this winter to support Ukraine. He must have forgot to mention it during the election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 hours ago, 101 said: Since he chucked it in he's spent his time on jollies whilst completely ignoring the crisis in the UK. So would I to be fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: The only thing of value to Russia in Crimea is Sevastapol. Ukraine have just demonstrated they can hit the naval base with long range missiles and what's left of the Black Sea fleet has been pulled out so it's hard to see what use the place is to Russia now. Crimea is of enormous symbolic value not just to Putin's regime but a sizable plurality of Russians. They see it as part restoring what Catherine the Great won for the Russian lands and part getting their old summer holiday destinations back. The Crimean Tatars are irrelevant to that story but then all Tatar populations are in political terms. Strategically it is not critical to Russia but the same applies to the Ukraine nationalist insistence that it must revert to their control because Khrushchev was guilty about his stint in Kiev. 3 hours ago, oaksoft said: So the answer is "No" then basically. Maybe we should revise this if and when they start showing a slow-down in support? You must have a meltdown every time you see a weather forecast on a TV then. Having the temerity to call things that haven't happened yet! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I see the Ukrainian Premier League season has started, but behind closed doors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Detournement said: Macron's told the French people they will have to make sacrifices this winter to support Ukraine. He must have forgot to mention it during the election. Boris Johnson went and said it as well. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-6266324 I jested about it, but there it is. Sorry you'll be freezing and hungry this winter. Russia, innit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael W said: Boris Johnson went and said it as well. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-6266324 I jested about it, but there it is. Sorry you'll be freezing and hungry this winter. Russia, innit. Macron actually said "the age of abundance is over". He's easily the most honest world leader, I'd put money him saying "Eat the bugs" before his term ends. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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