The Annexed Goodwillie Thread

[Josuke Higashikata]

11 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

We're OK and I just didn't like the word "admin", it's not just me!

Edited July 23, 2023 by Josuke Higashikata

[ClydeTon]

12 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Playing devil's advocate here but why should the career of the person make any difference?

David Martindale was accepted back in his chosen career without much being said. He should have been treated with exactly the same repulsion that Goodwillie faces.

I don't think there'll be anybody on here who isn't acutely aware of the impact recreational drug use has on communities all over the country.

 

I don't think anyone excuses Martindale's prior involvements with organised crime and whatnot. However, after he came out of prison he has worked to come back in to society in a positive role (which he has done) and is fully aware of his past wrongdoings; he turned down the Livingston Job in 2018(?), citing his past and not wanting to be an embarrassment to the club. Then in 2020 he took the job, and that put him in the spotlight, for both the bad he did prior to his prison sentence, but also the rehabilitation and good he did following that.

Goodwillie, one the other hand, claims innocence for rape (which, personally, I would argue is a more evil thing to do than what Martindale did, although they are both horrific) that he was found guilty of, acting out as if he is some angel (ignoring other convictions of assault). He also seems to think the woman in question didn't get justice, which suggests he should  be punished, even in his own eyes.

In a nutshell - Martindale has tried to better himself and repent his ways, and has done so (fairly) successfully. Goodwillie has attempted to deny his wrongdoings and pretends nothing happened.

That's why Martindale was accepted back into Football, whilst Goodwillie has not been. Not to suggest that Goodwillie's situation is just a "Say 'Sorry' and it all ends" case- it isn't.

This is just my take on it, though. I certainly don't speak for everyone.

Edited July 23, 2023 by ClydeTon

[No_Problemo]

4 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

I don't think anyone excuses Martindale's prior involvements with organised crime and whatnot. However, after he came out of prison he has worked to come back in to society in a positive role (which he has done) and is fully aware of his past wrongdoings; he turned down the Livingston Job in 2018(?), citing his past and not wanting to be an embarrassment to the club. Then in 2020 he took the job, and that put him in the spotlight, for both the bad he did prior to his prison sentence, but also the rehabilitation and good he did following that.

Goodwillie, one the other hand, claims innocence for rape (which, personally, I would argue is a more evil thing to do than what Martindale did, although they are both horrific) that he was found guilty of, acting out as if he is some angel (ignoring other convictions of assault). He also seems to think the woman in question didn't get justice, which suggests he should  be punished, even in his own eyes.

In a nutshell - Martindale has tried to better himself and repent his ways, and has done so (fairly) successfully. Goodwillie has attempted to deny his wrongdoings and pretends nothing happened.

That's why Martindale was accepted back into Football, whilst Goodwillie has not been. Not to suggest that Goodwillie's situation is just a "Say 'Sorry' and it all ends" case- it isn't.

This is just my take on it, though. I certainly don't speak for everyone.

I think this is a very good summary, and it is quite clearly blatantly obvious why the cases are different. 

Martindale recently attended Polmont, and now acts as a fantastic role model to these young people. 

In addition to this in terms of the drug trade there is a huge issue with young people (as discussed by Dele Ali) being exploited from childhood by drug dealers and it then just continues and becomes their life. 

[ClydeTon]

1 minute ago, No_Problemo said:

I think this is a very good summary, and it is quite clearly blatantly obvious why the cases are different. 

Martindale recently attended Polmont, and now acts as a fantastic role model to these young people. 

In addition to this in terms of the drug trade there is a huge issue with young people (as discussed by Dele Ali) being exploited from childhood by drug dealers and it then just continues and becomes their life. 

Hadn't heard of Martindale going into Polmomt, but doesn't surprise me in the slightest. From the (few) interviews I've heard of him talking about his past, he seems to have a great sense of regret.

Really good of him to do that with the Polmont lot. He knows, I suppose, what it's like. And the Dele Ali interview, as you say, really brings what they are going through to the forefront. At the end of the day, no child grows up thinking "I want to be a drug dealer".

[AyrExile]

2 hours ago, Autistisches Nilpferd said:

NLC already threatened it to Clyde. The precedent has already been set

Are you aware of the person in NLC who issued the threats? 

[No_Problemo]

3 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

Hadn't heard of Martindale going into Polmomt, but doesn't surprise me in the slightest. From the (few) interviews I've heard of him talking about his past, he seems to have a great sense of regret.

Really good of him to do that with the Polmont lot. He knows, I suppose, what it's like. And the Dele Ali interview, as you say, really brings what they are going through to the forefront. At the end of the day, no child grows up thinking "I want to be a drug dealer".

Yeah, I’m not saying it’s always the case but in terms of the drug trade there can be a big correlation in terms of poverty, upbringing and exploitation. 

 

[AyrExile]

2 hours ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

The umbrella of duty of care to their customers will cover cans of any variety.

Are far as I am aware offenders are allowed to use gyms etc as part of their rehabilitation. Some of those will be on the sec offenders list which Goodwillie isn’t on. Is it on. Should be an equal call for everyone and not just a political act 

[eindhovendee]

3 hours ago, AyrExile said:

I see the city council have now issued a statement which will open a big can of worms. You can't ban people from public sports facilities because their face doesn't fit 

That's true but you can ban a rapist.

[TxRover]

52 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Football is entirely relevant here tbh. No one cares if he gets a job in Tesco. He just shouldn't be allowed back into the sport. 

Maybe if he had signed a legally binding agreement to contribute, say, 75% of his earnings to paying off the legal judgements he dodged, apologized, and admitted his culpability at the beginning, he might have somehow found a way to crawl back into football…but he’s such a self-centered, narcissistic c**t that he will never admit any chance he did anything wrong and for that reason alone he needs shunned. That’s without the fact that he has not seen prison for any of what he’s done…assault or sexual assault. Even before this rape, he skated on the attacks with fines and community work.

The unwillingness of the press as a whole to refuse to give him a podium to spew his batshite theory on why he’s been hard done by is frustrating, as is the willingness of the fringe nutters to let him get “his side” broadcast on podcasts and such.

The Clyde situation was driven by a failure of society to recognize the blind spot that the “Me Too” movement shined light upon a little after his signing. He stayed head down and out of the press at Clyde until, conveniently, any fees he received would no longer be seized due to his bankruptcy filing, and then crawled back out from under his rock with the assistance of the Raith BoD…and was justifiably met with outrage.

 

[Donathan]

21 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

I don't think anyone excuses Martindale's prior involvements with organised crime and whatnot. However, after he came out of prison he has worked to come back in to society in a positive role (which he has done) and is fully aware of his past wrongdoings; he turned down the Livingston Job in 2018(?), citing his past and not wanting to be an embarrassment to the club. Then in 2020 he took the job, and that put him in the spotlight, for both the bad he did prior to his prison sentence, but also the rehabilitation and good he did following that.

Goodwillie, one the other hand, claims innocence for rape (which, personally, I would argue is a more evil thing to do than what Martindale did, although they are both horrific) that he was found guilty of, acting out as if he is some angel (ignoring other convictions of assault). He also seems to think the woman in question didn't get justice, which suggests he should  be punished, even in his own eyes.

In a nutshell - Martindale has tried to better himself and repent his ways, and has done so (fairly) successfully. Goodwillie has attempted to deny his wrongdoings and pretends nothing happened.

That's why Martindale was accepted back into Football, whilst Goodwillie has not been. Not to suggest that Goodwillie's situation is just a "Say 'Sorry' and it all ends" case- it isn't.

This is just my take on it, though. I certainly don't speak for everyone.

 

 

The confusion for me is that Goodwillie WAS accepted back into football for several years. Only after the Raith move did everything change.

 

Were people ignorant to the situation whilst he was banging the goals in for Clyde, was there some kind of change to social attitudes towards rape, or did it just take McDermid to make a stand and then suddenly him playing stopped being okay?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

 

The confusion for me is that Goodwillie WAS accepted back into football for several years. Only after the Raith move did everything change.

 

Were people ignorant to the situation whilst he was banging the goals in for Clyde, was there some kind of change to social attitudes towards rape, or did it just take McDermid to make a stand and then suddenly him playing stopped being okay?

If you read this thread you will find out that her stand was only a contribution to the actions of many.

[Bairnardo]

What I find grotesque in all of this is Goodwillie seems to be getting more vocal in these days which makes me think he is actually being advised by people who are steering this "can't we all just admit that no one really knows who's fault it was, that poor lassie probably just doesn't know who to lash out at so she's picked me" type narrative. 

James English being the obvious first port of call, but it's sad and worrying that there's such easy traction to be gained for "white, privileged male is the real victim here" 

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

If you read this thread you will find out that her stand was only a contribution to the actions of many.

I know, but McDermid set off the course of actions that led to the entire Raith support/staff/womens team cancelling Goodwillie and his subsequent cancellation by the game as a whole.

 

To clarify I've got no issue with him being cancelled (IMO he should change his name and go and play abroad) but where was this energy when he was playing for Clyde for years?

[an86]

Depressing number of folk, kicking around various platforms, doing moral gymnastics here because (a) They don’t like the messenger. (b) Because folk wrongly ignored it five years ago, they should now wrongly ignore it forever.

Can play all the whataboutery you want, but if you’re using publicly funded facilities, you have to be pretty free of controversy. Controversy is also a massive understatement here.

He’s shown zero remorse. Until he does, there should be no road back for him and anyone offering him a hand should be made to feel the consequences. The fact that Clyde gave him that hand will remain a stain their club for a long time. 

If you’re approaching this from a “ah, but what about” angle, then  I’d urge you to go and read every single word of the testimonies and think about what you’re actually going in to bat for. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by an86

[Broken Algorithms]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

I know, but McDermid set off the course of actions that led to the entire Raith support/staff/womens team cancelling Goodwillie and his subsequent cancellation by the game as a whole.

This is absolute bollocks. Our SLO, our fans director and numerous supporters all walked before Val had even opened up Twitter. Nobody mentions TAG games walking (the other shirt sponsor). Nobody mentions RaithTV (a group of fans with far more importance than Val) walking. Nobody mentions that we couldn't put on the Saturday match against Hamilton because the safety officer had walked during the week. Val definitely had an influence but she was by no means the be all and end all.

The nonsense about Val gets put out because it's an easier narrative for simpletons with union jacks in their on twitter to spew out over 'wee nippy'. 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Just now, Donathan said:

I know, but McDermid set off the course of actions that led to the entire Raith support/staff/womens team cancelling Goodwillie and his subsequent cancellation by the game as a whole.

 

To clarify I've got no issue with him being cancelled (IMO he should change his name and go and play abroad) but where was this energy when he was playing for Clyde for years?

You make it seem as if she alone is responsible for everything kicking off at Starks Park.

Prior to the signing at the end of January, there was rumours over a month earlier of the deal.

This set off, including me, supporters writing to the board asking them to reconsider this course of action.

Val took her concerns to the board and was assured it wasn't happening by an ex-employee, a blatant lie straight to her face.

The actions taken were a group action, the difference with Val and another main sponsor Tag Games was their profile being compromised, hence both pulling their respective deals.

Again, she wasn't the vanguard in this action.

[ClydeTon]

23 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

The confusion for me is that Goodwillie WAS accepted back into football for several years. Only after the Raith move did everything change.

 

Were people ignorant to the situation whilst he was banging the goals in for Clyde, was there some kind of change to social attitudes towards rape, or did it just take McDermid to make a stand and then suddenly him playing stopped being okay?

That's true as well, but looking at it from today's situation he isn't accepted, at all.

I did find it strange that NLC booted Clyde out of Broadwood when he re-signed, but not when he signed initially.

Why nobody really did anything (plenty was said, albeit not at the present level) until his signing for Raith is a question I don't have the answer to.

The shitstorm that happened when he signed for Raith and the current stuff regarding Glasgow Utd should have happened when he first joined Clyde and should have kept going until he was inevitably shoved out the door.

Edited July 23, 2023 by ClydeTon

[No_Problemo]

30 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Are far as I am aware offenders are allowed to use gyms etc as part of their rehabilitation. Some of those will be on the sec offenders list which Goodwillie isn’t on. Is it on. Should be an equal call for everyone and not just a political act 

I don’t have an issue with Goodwillie using a gym, that isn’t remotely what this is about. 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

That's true as well, but looking at it from today's situation he isn't.

I have found it strange that NLC didn't boot Clyde out of Broadwood when he first signed. Why nobody did anything (plenty was said, albeit not at the present level) until his signing for Raith is a question I don't have the answer to. The shitstorm that happened when he signed for Raith and the current stuff regarding Glasgow Utd should have happened when he first joined Clyde and should have kept going until he was inevitably shoved out the door.

 

IIRC Broadwood was under an arms length trust whose tenure conveniently came to an end around that time.

I recall Clyde fans posting that NLC were at odds with the club over a number of years for reasons I couldn't find out.

This came at the perfect time for NLC to finally get shot of their tenants.

[ClydeTon]

31 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Yeah, I’m not saying it’s always the case but in terms of the drug trade there can be a big correlation in terms of poverty, upbringing and exploitation. 

 

Absolutely, it's impossible to go into the Town Centre here without seeing at least one person who's life, clearly, has been ruined by (taking) drugs. Same goes for plenty of places.

Same with the people who're forced into dealing it. I can only imagine how horrible that life would be for a child, doing that. Often they are left with no role models, so Martindale's efforts are probably one of the things they needed most; Someone to look up to.