Scottish clubs handing out long term deals to average ageing players

[gannonball]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's usually because teams need squad players they know aren't complete flops.

A bang average 30yo is less of a gamble than a totally unknown 22yo. Is it right? Maybe not, bit not everyone in a 23 man squad can be a young gamble.

Agree with what your saying I just find it strange more extra years being added on to deals of late when it’s very unlikely they are going to get it elsewhere at a similar club.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, gannonball said:

Agree with what your saying I just find it strange more extra years being added on to deals of late when it’s very unlikely they are going to get it elsewhere at a similar club.

Can only speak for us but apparently the deals for MOH/May saw them offered a certain amount of money. Then they chose whether to have a lower weekly wage over 2 years or a higher weekly wage for 1.

They wanted the extra security of a 2yr deal near the end of their career, we get 2 squad players who give us a sort of "safety net" to gamble on others who hopefully prove better.

[Hoose Rice]

Elder players don't want longer than one year with shan wages it's why the smaller clubs give 1 year deals.  Other sides give 2 or 3 to build consistently for the next few years because they can afford to. 

The over 30s want long term security and it's usually a player who is past their prime but still decent so get a 2 year if they are that good. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Hoose Rice

[Derry Alli]

30 minutes ago, Zing. said:

That’s ok because he’s sexy as f**k and a Scottish Cup winner. 

#YLT. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I see Hearts have handed out a two year to Andy Halliday however we had already set the bar pretty high by inexplicably giving James Mccarthy a 4 year deal despite being the wrong side of 30 and injury prone. I’ve noticed Saint Johnstone doing much the same with a few players. 
Im a bit perplexed by this, clearly alot of these players are never going to get these deals elsewhere unless they go to a lesser club on far less money so there is no need to tie them longer than necessary as they have no resale value. Anybody else baffled by these contracts of late considering we are still recovering financially from Covid and given the short tenures of managers often these are the ones that are shown the door first as they are seen as ‘running the dressing room’ etc.

Ours aren't even average.

[Satoshi]

Yeah it's definitely linked to older players valuing security over lots of short term deals.

There could certainly be a bit more creativity in the Scottish football market (only maybe Switzerland can compete with us of nations under 10 million people but the cost of living there is far higher).

Still around the world every team gets some transfers in and some wrong, I think the older a player is the less likely it is to go badly as you should know exactly what you're getting.

[The Golden God]

Can’t remember exactly how long Scott Sinclair for, will say 4, but he was incredible in his first season (first 10 minutes also) and was useless by the third.

[coprolite]

We're not usually too bad for this any more.

We did give 32 yo Hayes 2 years but he's been better in the second of those.

Scott Brown does look to be in decline in year one of two but he was signed as a coach.

Went through a bit of a phase of signing ageing players a while ago but i don't think they were on long deals and were generally decent. 

[Leith Green]

12 hours ago, Mr. Alli said:

#YLT. 

I met Daz recently, lovely guy - still looks very fit up close (but has undoubtedly lost some of the pace he never had). Knees made of chocolate now.

A fucking warrior and epitomises Hibs -  a bit like Gary Locke with Hearts, without giving off those inbred remedial spoon vibes.

I would give him a contract til hes 50............

[topcat(The most tip top)]

It’s reasonable to assume that in these situations it doesn’t cost twice as much to get a second year

ETA Which is probably more tax efficient in many cases
I

[Aylo vanal]

I think Halliday isn't the best example for your point. He's not a starter at Hearts but can do a job in a few positions at our level. I've been a critic of his but actually in the last couple of months every time he's been called upon he's done pretty well. 

Longer contracts is the only way some clubs will attract the players. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Hearts in general have shifted our signing policy significantly to try get some money from down south. 

I think Moravcik was 33 when he signed for celtic

[ATLIS]

Pretty sure we gave Marvin Bartley a 3 year deal when he signed with us. Was outstanding for 2 of those and has essentially retired in his 3rd. I don't think he's made an appearance at all this season but he's moved into the coaching side of things and now is our assistant manager

[Comrie]

35 year old Don Cowie to County on a 2 year deal was a laugh.

 

At least he stayed on as a coach and is now assistant manager.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

Halliday is only 30 in fairness, even if I don't particularly rate him

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I think Halliday isn't the best example for your point. He's not a starter at Hearts but can do a job in a few positions at our level. I've been a critic of his but actually in the last couple of months every time he's been called upon he's done pretty well. 
Longer contracts is the only way some clubs will attract the players. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Hearts in general have shifted our signing policy significantly to try get some money from down south. 
I think Moravcik was 33 when he signed for celtic [emoji2369]

Attempting to squeeze a bit more out of the nearly empty toothpaste tube of a players career can be worthwhile exercise but the crucial thing is not to have the whole team built on such a precarious foundation

Charlie Adam has only managed to complete 90 minutes for Dundee in eight games this season. They won 5 and lost 1.

In the 10 games that he’s been completely absent from they’ve lost eight and drawn two

Dundee are now in a position where their survival in the top flight is hanging by a 36 year old hamstring

Halliday on the other hand is there as cover. Hearts don’t need to work him that hard and can hopefully give him time to properly recover from knocks and tweaks that he wouldn’t get if he went to Kilmarnock or Raith

For players in their mid thirties it must be tempting to step down to a level where they’re still first pick but it might not be the smartest choice

[Darren]

A two-year deal for a 30-year-old is a terrible example. Even if Halliday is pish.

[Theyellowbox]

12 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Halliday is only 30 in fairness, even if I don't particularly rate him

Actually had to go look that up. I had in my head he was c35, at a push 33ish.

I think a few years ago, clubs were put off anything more than a year for a non young player as relative to turnover, wages were higher then in Scotland. Now, I think that given the player, many can carry on easily until mid 30, so a 3 year deal at 30/31 is OK. Of course, some will be handed out with both sides realistically knowing it will not go the full length. Naismith with Hearts always felt that way to me, but probably includes clauses on coaching roles etc

Handing out a 2 year deal to a player you already have and know what they can do is fine, but when clubs give a 2 year deal to a new signing, always feels pointless to me. If they are good, you know they will be away after 18 months on a PCA (Matty Kennedy at Saints being a prime example) or they end up pish and you are stuck with them for 2 years. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Theyellowbox

[gannonball]

16 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

It’s reasonable to assume that in these situations it doesn’t cost twice as much to get a second year

ETA Which is probably more tax efficient in many cases
I

Yeah a good point. I seen Johnny Hayes had deferred his wages for a year when he re-signed for Aberdeen which would have been mutually beneficial really rather than him being selfless. Lawwell deferred his bonus years ago when we didn’t have a great season but the tories were also cutting the top rate the next year.

[TheScarf]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Attempting to squeeze a bit more out of the nearly empty toothpaste tube of a players career can be worthwhile exercise but the crucial thing is not to have the whole team built on such a precarious foundation

Charlie Adam has only managed to complete 90 minutes for Dundee in eight games this season. They won 5 and lost 1.

In the 10 games that he’s been completely absent from they’ve lost eight and drawn two

Dundee are now in a position where their survival in the top flight is hanging by a 36 year old hamstring

Halliday on the other hand is there as cover. Hearts don’t need to work him that hard and can hopefully give him time to properly recover from knocks and tweaks that he wouldn’t get if he went to Kilmarnock or Raith

For players in their mid thirties it must be tempting to step down to a level where they’re still first pick but it might not be the smartest choice

I firmly believe it was him and him only that got Dundee promoted last season.  There's no way in fuck they would be in the Premiership if he hadn't signed.  The stats back that up. An absolute masterstroke from McPake, which actually saved his own skin for 9 months before Nelms finally pulled the trigger on him.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Theyellowbox said:

Handing out a 2 year deal to a player you already have and know what they can do is fine, but when clubs give a 2 year deal to a new signing, always feels pointless to me. If they are good, you know they will be away after 18 months on a PCA (Matty Kennedy at Saints being a prime example) or they end up pish and you are stuck with them for 2 years. 

Or you sell them for money after 6 months or a year.