Lowland League General Discussion

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

The LL clubs must have known the timetable. Was anything stopping tcki off the season a week earlier?

It's not about fixture congestion, it's about twiddling your thumbs from mid-April onwards. It's just too early to be done with a football season.

[lowenan]

Could have the League Cup after the league is finished.

[Highland ITFC]

5 hours ago, lowenan said:

Could have the League Cup after the league is finished.

That's how it was last season, but they changed it for this.

I know from a LL players' perspective that quite a lot of them are happy with an earlier end to the season, as it then gives them a decent off-season break of a couple of months, given that clubs are generally back in for pre-season in late June.

[cowdenbeath]

7 hours ago, Highland ITFC said:

That's how it was last season, but they changed it for this.

I know from a LL players' perspective that quite a lot of them are happy with an earlier end to the season, as it then gives them a decent off-season break of a couple of months, given that clubs are generally back in for pre-season in late June.

Plus from clubs point of view it saves them paying extra wages at the end of the season.

[edinabear]

Are Rangers and Hibs B teams joining next season then?

[Sparticus]

7 hours ago, edinabear said:

Are Rangers and Hibs B teams joining next season then?

Four b teams would completely wreck the integrity of this league.

Can any club just buy into any league as a guest club?

A proper reserve league needs set up.

Let b teams into the lowland cup competitions to soften the blow maybe?

[Cowden Cowboy]

8 hours ago, edinabear said:

Are Rangers and Hibs B teams joining next season then?

No

[Deanburn Dave]

8 hours ago, edinabear said:

Are Rangers and Hibs B teams joining next season then?

My recollection was that additional "guest clubs" were to apply by end of the calendar year and by the end of January it was supposed to be all settled.    

No announcement presumably means no additional B teams next season.

[An Absolute Imposter]

2 hours ago, Sparticus said:

Four b teams would completely wreck the integrity of this league.

Can any club just buy into any league as a guest club?

A proper reserve league needs set up.

Let b teams into the lowland cup competitions to soften the blow maybe?

What integrity!

That storage jar was emptied long ago.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Deanburn Dave said:

My recollection was that additional "guest clubs" were to apply by end of the calendar year and by the end of January it was supposed to be all settled.    

No announcement presumably means no additional B teams next season.

It's Celtic and Hearts for the next two seasons, with the option for a third if the clubs want it.  Not sure what happens if any more want in on it at the end of next season.

[craigkillie]

On 02/05/2024 at 19:06, Cowden Cowboy said:

A proposal would need to be fully fleshed out with all of its ramifications considered bearing in mind the plethora of possibilities that currently exist - one up to SPFL or no promotion and none down or one down and the impact that has at bottom plus the situation if champions from below are not licensed.  That takes a good deal of work.  In reality there will be many differing Club viewpoints which might not readily be reconciled into a one size fits all proposal.  You would expect that if change was to come that a majority of clubs would need to coalesce into supporting one clear and coherent plan that covers all the bases - then put that forward knowing they have majority support.  

It doesn't take a good deal of work, somebody could do it in about half an hour.

[kevsmart]

6 hours ago, Sparticus said:

Four b teams would completely wreck the integrity of this league.

Can any club just buy into any league as a guest club?

A proper reserve league needs set up.

Let b teams into the lowland cup competitions to soften the blow maybe?

There is a proper Reserve League, mainly played on Tuesday Afternoons 

[Alberto Spencer]

Here's the Final Reserve League Table. Congrats to QP. Only 8 games seems a tad short for a season.

POS.		P	W	D	L	GF	GA	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
1	Queen's Park Reserves	8	3	1	0	7	1	3	0	1	12	6	12	19
2	Dundee Reserves	8	2	1	1	5	3	2	2	0	6	1	7	15
3	Hibernian Reserves	8	2	1	1	9	5	2	1	1	9	6	7	14
4	Kilmarnock Reserves	8	2	0	2	18	8	2	1	1	9	8	11	13
5	Ayr United Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	12	3	0	1	7	4	-2	13
6	Dunfermline Athletic Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	10	2	0	2	7	4	0	10
7	Queen of the South Reserves	8	1	0	3	7	9	2	1	1	9	9	-2	10
8	Livingston Reserves	8	1	0	3	8	9	0	2	2	5	13	-9	5
9	Airdrieonians Reserves	8	0	2	2	3	10	0	0	4	3	20	-24	2

[Cowden Cowboy]

6 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It doesn't take a good deal of work, somebody could do it in about half an hour.

Well somebody needs to do it then get enough clubs to agree before putting it forward 

[craigkillie]

3 hours ago, Alberto Spencer said:

Here's the Final Reserve League Table. Congrats to QP. Only 8 games seems a tad short for a season.

POS.		P	W	D	L	GF	GA	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
1	Queen's Park Reserves	8	3	1	0	7	1	3	0	1	12	6	12	19
2	Dundee Reserves	8	2	1	1	5	3	2	2	0	6	1	7	15
3	Hibernian Reserves	8	2	1	1	9	5	2	1	1	9	6	7	14
4	Kilmarnock Reserves	8	2	0	2	18	8	2	1	1	9	8	11	13
5	Ayr United Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	12	3	0	1	7	4	-2	13
6	Dunfermline Athletic Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	10	2	0	2	7	4	0	10
7	Queen of the South Reserves	8	1	0	3	7	9	2	1	1	9	9	-2	10
8	Livingston Reserves	8	1	0	3	8	9	0	2	2	5	13	-9	5
9	Airdrieonians Reserves	8	0	2	2	3	10	0	0	4	3	20	-24	2

There is also a cup competition with a group stage. Of course, the number of games would have increased if other clubs had not pulled out.

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, Alberto Spencer said:

Here's the Final Reserve League Table. Congrats to QP. Only 8 games seems a tad short for a season.

POS.		P	W	D	L	GF	GA	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
1	Queen's Park Reserves	8	3	1	0	7	1	3	0	1	12	6	12	19
2	Dundee Reserves	8	2	1	1	5	3	2	2	0	6	1	7	15
3	Hibernian Reserves	8	2	1	1	9	5	2	1	1	9	6	7	14
4	Kilmarnock Reserves	8	2	0	2	18	8	2	1	1	9	8	11	13
5	Ayr United Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	12	3	0	1	7	4	-2	13
6	Dunfermline Athletic Reserves	8	1	1	2	7	10	2	0	2	7	4	0	10
7	Queen of the South Reserves	8	1	0	3	7	9	2	1	1	9	9	-2	10
8	Livingston Reserves	8	1	0	3	8	9	0	2	2	5	13	-9	5
9	Airdrieonians Reserves	8	0	2	2	3	10	0	0	4	3	20	-24	c2

Complemented with reserve league cup which provides another 3-6 games.   1-2 games a month isn't too bad given a lot of players will are also playing u18s or first team(potentially on loan at another club)  

Guess you'd want a more intense schedule if you have a large amount of 18+ players at your club, but there's always the opportunity to add a bounce game in, but you don't want too many games scheduled as clubs don't want to be playing them during busy first team periods.    

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Guess you'd want a more intense schedule if you have a large amount of 18+ players at your club, but there's always the opportunity to add a bounce game in, but you don't want too many games scheduled as clubs don't want to be playing them during busy first team periods.    

IMO, clubs unnecessarily keep too many players on beyond 18, with most of them only playing "development" or B Team football.  If you are not making the first team squad at 18, then you are unlikely to make it at that level. It means that there are too many "jersey fillers" being kept on with minimal prospect of a full time career at their club.  They would be much better being let go at 18, allowing them to find another club at a lower level, or a job, further education and perhaps find a part time club lower in the pyramid if they want to keep playing.  (Ideally, I would make the first cull at 16)

Hearts have just released 3 x 18 year olds and 3 x B Team players, none of whom ever had a realistic chance of making it at Hearts.  Similarly, there are others who have been kept on for next season's B Team, but also have little chance of making it.

[parsforlife]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

IMO, clubs unnecessarily keep too many players on beyond 18, with most of them only playing "development" or B Team football.  If you are not making the first team squad at 18, then you are unlikely to make it at that level. It means that there are too many "jersey fillers" being kept on with minimal prospect of a full time career at their club.  They would be much better being let go at 18, allowing them to find another club at a lower level, or a job, further education and perhaps find a part time club lower in the pyramid if they want to keep playing.  (Ideally, I would make the first cull at 16)

Hearts have just released 3 x 18 year olds and 3 x B Team players, none of whom ever had a realistic chance of making it at Hearts.  Similarly, there are others who have been kept on for next season's B Team, but also have little chance of making it.

Youth football as a whole is based on signing 100 and hope 1 is good enough.  That multiplies out the further down the ages you go but by the time players become first team eligible it is time to have honest conversations,  but they won't cos by that point you've identified the 1/2 that actually have a chance and you want them to have team mates of reasonable quality so you keep telling the 16 year old who may play between league 2 and EoS 2nd division that they have a chance to play premiership even tho you know that's unlikely. 

Another motivator for that is clubs are too scared to make release a player and realise they fucked up, so the keep to many than take that risk.

Part of the SFA development funding clubs get is based on how players making first team or national squads,  The flip side should also be considered about how many players are kept on too long.

[Burnieman]

10 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Youth football as a whole is based on signing 100 and hope 1 is good enough.  That multiplies out the further down the ages you go but by the time players become first team eligible it is time to have honest conversations,  but they won't cos by that point you've identified the 1/2 that actually have a chance and you want them to have team mates of reasonable quality so you keep telling the 16 year old who may play between league 2 and EoS 2nd division that they have a chance to play premiership even tho you know that's unlikely. 

Another motivator for that is clubs are too scared to make release a player and realise they fucked up, so the keep to many than take that risk.

Part of the SFA development funding clubs get is based on how players making first team or national squads,  The flip side should also be considered about how many players are kept on too long.

There's always going to be "jersey filling" at every level below first team, you need 16-18 players to have a squad.

Football below first team level is a mess in Scotland, so what's the solution?

Reserve football is currently a farce and there's not enough clubs who will put the money in to make it what is used to be, and it's less than half the number of games the LL B teams play. The current league plays each other only once, why not home and away to increase matches.

B team league football is only open to 2 clubs, and has age restrictions which make it development football as opposed to reserve football. Rangers play friendlies but I think only managed 8 since January which on the face of it, is hopeless.

CAS U18 doesn't really prepare younger players for the leap to first team football, particularly at the higher end clubs.

Loan system can be very hit or miss.

I'd personally like to see a proper reserve league back in place, taking your best players from U16/U18 and mixing them with your fringe first team and those coming back from injury, have a limit to how many senior players can be in the match squad. Sounds very old skool but it did appear to work and many an International came through that system.  Play it Monday nights, promote it, free to season ticket holders etc etc, not this midweek afternoon nonsense.

But it needs clubs to support it and there just isn't enough interest. There should be, first team squads at many clubs are bloated, so there's always 6 or 7 players not getting off the bench or not in the squad, not getting game time. B teams in their current form dont help that either.

To keep this LL relevant, the B team issue won't go away unless there's a solution.

 

 

Edited May 8 by Burnieman

[Burnieman]

17 hours ago, craigkillie said:

There is also a cup competition with a group stage. Of course, the number of games would have increased if other clubs had not pulled out.

Why don't they play home and away league season giving an extra 8 games?