Cowden Cowboy Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 9 minutes ago, RampantFM said: There's no obligation for the Lowland League to accept Edinburgh City, it would most likely go down to a member's vote. I would expect the runner-up of the Lowland League Playoff to have a chance of an invite too, if there was an additional space in the league. I've heard the Lowland League are bringing in a certificate of undertaking similiar to the SPFL, so City would need to pass that also. I don’t think there are invites - clubs make an application 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 16 hours ago, Burnieman said: There's no vacancy to fill and the LL isn't allowed to expand beyond 16 member clubs. The B teams are "guest clubs", not members. If Edinburgh City got booted from the SPFL - I don't think there's much chance of that happening btw but it's the hypothetical we're discussing - then the SPFL may very well fill their place by retaining Stranraer and admitting EK. That would create a vacancy in the LL. I know the rules state that, in that case, Edinburgh Uni don't get relegated, but what if it happens after the cut-off date, when it's technically in the new season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 16 minutes ago, GordonS said: If Edinburgh City got booted from the SPFL - I don't think there's much chance of that happening btw but it's the hypothetical we're discussing - then the SPFL may very well fill their place by retaining Stranraer and admitting EK. That would create a vacancy in the LL. I know the rules state that, in that case, Edinburgh Uni don't get relegated, but what if it happens after the cut-off date, when it's technically in the new season? I would assume there's no relegation and Uni are saved. However like you, I can't see the SPFL booting a club out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 4 hours ago, Burnieman said: I doubt the SPFL have the power to place expelled clubs into the next level down. Clubs are expelled for failing to meet membership requirements, that's it, they're then on their own. There was me thinking that it was a working pyramid! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, RampantFM said: There's no obligation for the Lowland League to accept Edinburgh City, it would most likely go down to a member's vote. I would expect the runner-up of the Lowland League Playoff to have a chance of an invite too, if there was an additional space in the league. I've heard the Lowland League are bringing in a certificate of undertaking similiar to the SPFL, so City would need to pass that also. What is a certificate of undertaking? Is it just another barrier being brought in to prevent the promotion to/relegation from situation from improving?? Edited May 10 by Dev . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 30 minutes ago, Dev said: There was me thinking that it was a working pyramid! Well they would have been expelled from the Pyramid, and then need to apply to a league within it that will accept them. Probably the EoS, probably at the bottom level, where they have a chance to work their way back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 49 minutes ago, Dev said: There was me thinking that it was a working pyramid! We'll see how this goes. I don't think anyone is particularly thinking a team will be expelled from the SPFL on licensing. The can will be kicked down the road and some penalties given (financial/points) Then if there's an idea that Edinburgh City are still at risk of going bust. Then how is what we have any different than England? Bury's tale is a little more complicated but basically after a being expelled from the EFL, a phoenix club was started at the highest point of the pyramid they could enter. Which was the Northwest Counties Division 1 North. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 The thing about the pyramid is that it's unplanned. Nobody has sat down and worked out all the implications. There are 6 base-level leagues with differing rules, then two tier 5 leagues above them with differing rules, and then the SPFL, which has no say on what goes on beneath them except for the pyramid play-off. The borders between leagues are fuzzy in some places, firm in others. It came together at different speeds in different parts of the country, beginning with formation of the LL and ending (I think) with the arrangements for a tier 6 play-off in the HL area. In many ways this is a strength because the growth has been organic, reflecting the desires of clubs and local traditions, but when it comes to unconventional events it leads to uncertainty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevsmart Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 6 hours ago, Dev said: Surely failure to reach a particular level of Licence would mean that they might be relegated to the next highest division within the pyramid which accepts whatever level of Licence which they end up with? That would mean filling the gap in the SFL which it would create. How to do that is the real question as I see it (FWIW). Presumably the clubs to benefit would be Stranraer and EK with both being in the SFL2 next season. That would create a gap in the LL. How would/should that be filled? Who ever wins the EOS/SOSFL will fill the LL vacancy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 20 hours ago, RampantFM said: There's no obligation for the Lowland League to accept Edinburgh City, it would most likely go down to a member's vote. I would expect the runner-up of the Lowland League Playoff to have a chance of an invite too, if there was an additional space in the league. I've heard the Lowland League are bringing in a certificate of undertaking similiar to the SPFL, so City would need to pass that also. The Lowland League will do whatever the SFA want, they always do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 18 hours ago, Burnieman said: Well they would have been expelled from the Pyramid, and then need to apply to a league within it that will accept them. Probably the EoS, probably at the bottom level, where they have a chance to work their way back. They would not be expelled from the Pyramid if their Licence was at Entry level rather than the SFL's new requirement, Bronze. They would be relegated to the next level downwards which accepts Entry level clubs i.e. the Lowland League. If Edinburgh City were to go bust then would they be treated much different to Rangers? They weren't kicked out of the top 4 Tiers, so why should that happen to any other Tier 1-4 club if they go bust? Just asking the question. Not saying which is "right" and not going on about Rangers so no diversion onto them please! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dev said: They would not be expelled from the Pyramid if their Licence was at Entry level rather than the SFL's new requirement, Bronze. They would be relegated to the next level downwards which accepts Entry level clubs i.e. the Lowland League. If Edinburgh City were to go bust then would they be treated much different to Rangers? They weren't kicked out of the top 4 Tiers, so why should that happen to any other Tier 1-4 club if they go bust? Just asking the question. Not saying which is "right" and not going on about Rangers so no diversion onto them please! No they won't, expulsion is just that, it's not demotion or relegation. They are kicked out of the SPFL for not meeting it's rules and then it's upto the club to seek a new league. The SFA do not want more than 16 member clubs in the LL therefore the LL would need to change it's rules to expand to 17 and have these signed off by the SFA. They would not enter the Lowland League unless some sort of fudge/compromise happens. If it does happen that Edinburgh City are expelled (and from what I hear, it's a long way from being certain that they won't), then I can see them folding entirely. Maybe an AFC Edinburgh City would re-appear in the EoS. Edited May 11 by Burnieman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: The Lowland League will do whatever CeltGers want, they always do. FTFY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrison Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Burnieman said: No they won't, expulsion is just that, it's not demotion or relegation. They are kicked out of the SPFL for not meeting it's rules and then it's upto the club to seek a new league. The SFA do not want more than 16 member clubs in the LL therefore the LL would need to change it's rules to expand to 17 and have these signed off by the SFA. They would not enter the Lowland League unless some sort of fudge/compromise happens. Neither you nor @Dev know what would happen in this scenario. Edinburgh could slot in to the LL if 'Club 43' happened to be promoted to fill the void and came from the LL catchment. It'd be convenient for everyone (except the relegated LL club/the second placed LL play-off club if applicable). That's more difficult if Club 43 was from the HL catchment. It's fun to talk about when there's little football left anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, Burnieman said: The SFA do not want more than 16 member clubs in the LL therefore the LL would need to change it's rules to expand to 17 and have these signed off by the SFA. They would not enter the Lowland League unless some sort of fudge/compromise happens. Rule B1 ... The maximum number of clubs will normally be sixteen (16) but may be increased temporarily to a maximum of nineteen (19) at the sole discretion of the Board. Edited May 11 by Ginaro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 4 hours ago, Dev said: They would not be expelled from the Pyramid if their Licence was at Entry level rather than the SFL's new requirement, Bronze. They would be relegated to the next level downwards which accepts Entry level clubs i.e. the Lowland League. If Edinburgh City were to go bust then would they be treated much different to Rangers? They weren't kicked out of the top 4 Tiers, so why should that happen to any other Tier 1-4 club if they go bust? Just asking the question. Not saying which is "right" and not going on about Rangers so no diversion onto them please! The "Pyramid" has no rules: every entity has its own. The SPFL could expel a club under its rules, but it has no jurisdiction over what would happen to them thereafter. As for the Rangers comparison, are memories really so short? They weren't "kicked out" - they simply ceased to exist. In spite of all the later efforts to re-write history, the club of the same name admitted to Tier 4 were an entirely new entity. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantFM Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) On 10/05/2024 at 14:32, GordonS said: If Edinburgh City got booted from the SPFL - I don't think there's much chance of that happening btw but it's the hypothetical we're discussing - then the SPFL may very well fill their place by retaining Stranraer and admitting EK. That would create a vacancy in the LL. I know the rules state that, in that case, Edinburgh Uni don't get relegated, but what if it happens after the cut-off date, when it's technically in the new season? I think Edinburgh Uni are down either way. Whitehill Welfare were confirmed as being relegated before Bonnyrigg Rose sorted their SFA license to join the league. As someone stated, an extra place would likely go to application. Edited May 11 by RampantFM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantFM Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 3 hours ago, Ginaro said: Rule B1 ... The maximum number of clubs will normally be sixteen (16) but may be increased temporarily to a maximum of nineteen (19) at the sole discretion of the Board. That rule only applies to guest clubs. The Lowland League have tried to increase the league to 20 clubs (including B teams) but it was denied by the SFA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 30 minutes ago, RampantFM said: That rule only applies to guest clubs. The Lowland League have tried to increase the league to 20 clubs (including B teams) but it was denied by the SFA. It doesn't apply to guest clubs. The first version of it was brought in after 2019-20 before B teams were introduced. It was put in because of the increase to 17 and the possibility of what might come next dealing with lockdowns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, RampantFM said: I think Edinburgh Uni are down either way. Whitehill Welfare were confirmed as being relegated before Bonnyrigg Rose sorted their SFA license to join the league. As someone stated, an extra place would likely go to application. If that were to happen I'd bet on an attempt being made to stitch it up for Edinburgh City. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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