Lowland League General Discussion

[newcastle broon]

10 hours ago, edinabear said:

Imagine if the Braves won this. Would be an absolute disaster for the league

Yet there was talk of a B team winning the league. 

Imagine an inconsistent B team finishing bottom..

Now that would be a major talking point. 

[To B or not B]

1 hour ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I don't comment often. I like to read the forum from afar. Love the game at this level it's more pure. But I'm only interested in the football. 

I really dislike all the bs; we're a big club because we were good 'insert' 5- 100 years ago. We've got more fans than you. The lowland league isn't run the way we want etc etc. Any number of bs reasons to write about other than what's happening in the matches. 

Tier 5 and 6 are great with a good variety of teams, players, coaches, tactics etc. the relative success of newer/smaller clubs should be a positive. Every club was new and different once. The former sfl clubs are an example of being run poorly. Most of them have been in decline on the pitch but more significantly off the pitch for years before they reached the lowland. Now they are in the lowland league, there are so many issues to fix that the football continues to struggle and returning to sfl2 is a fantasy..

But despite that it's good to have these clubs in the league. They add to the variety. And they fully validate the need for the pyramid. Everyone will find their level eventually. Some quicker than others.

The teams who have gotten promoted to sfl2 are usually well run on and off the pitch. Edinburgh city, cove, kelty, Spartans. Some of them have lots of money on top of that (which undoubtedly helps) some less so but they manage whatever resources they have well enough to drive success on the pitch.

The differences in all the teams, their histories and how they compete is what makes the lowland and tier 6 interesting.

Football is about what' happens on the pitch. No fan gives af about behind the scenes unless the off the pitch stuff isn't working. People would still play football and form teams if there were no fans. It's probably how all teams start.

I'm not a direct fan of any teams at this level (in fact not of any teams in Scotland). I've seen Broomhill, ek, braves, Cumbernauld etc play alongside most teams at this level. I couldn't care less if they're newer clubs or older clubs. I just watch the football. Sometimes it's good watching sometimes not but it's all interesting.

There is so much to discuss about the games themselves why are so many of you always talking about the bs. Don't you love the game? Are you all that miserable that moaning about other clubs perceived failings is more interesting than discussing what's happening in the matches? Any chance we can discuss the games, the players, the good and bad decisions, the skills, the bloopers, the managers, the balls, anything but the bs?

Fantastic post.

[Cowdenleith]

3 hours ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I don't comment often. I like to read the forum from afar. Love the game at this level it's more pure. But I'm only interested in the football. 

I really dislike all the bs; we're a big club because we were good 'insert' 5- 100 years ago. We've got more fans than you. The lowland league isn't run the way we want etc etc. Any number of bs reasons to write about other than what's happening in the matches. 

Tier 5 and 6 are great with a good variety of teams, players, coaches, tactics etc. the relative success of newer/smaller clubs should be a positive. Every club was new and different once. The former sfl clubs are an example of being run poorly. Most of them have been in decline on the pitch but more significantly off the pitch for years before they reached the lowland. Now they are in the lowland league, there are so many issues to fix that the football continues to struggle and returning to sfl2 is a fantasy..

But despite that it's good to have these clubs in the league. They add to the variety. And they fully validate the need for the pyramid. Everyone will find their level eventually. Some quicker than others.

The teams who have gotten promoted to sfl2 are usually well run on and off the pitch. Edinburgh city, cove, kelty, Spartans. Some of them have lots of money on top of that (which undoubtedly helps) some less so but they manage whatever resources they have well enough to drive success on the pitch.

The differences in all the teams, their histories and how they compete is what makes the lowland and tier 6 interesting.

Football is about what' happens on the pitch. No fan gives af about behind the scenes unless the off the pitch stuff isn't working. People would still play football and form teams if there were no fans. It's probably how all teams start.

I'm not a direct fan of any teams at this level (in fact not of any teams in Scotland). I've seen Broomhill, ek, braves, Cumbernauld etc play alongside most teams at this level. I couldn't care less if they're newer clubs or older clubs. I just watch the football. Sometimes it's good watching sometimes not but it's all interesting.

There is so much to discuss about the games themselves why are so many of you always talking about the bs. Don't you love the game? Are you all that miserable that moaning about other clubs perceived failings is more interesting than discussing what's happening in the matches? Any chance we can discuss the games, the players, the good and bad decisions, the skills, the bloopers, the managers, the balls, anything but the bs?

It’s an enthusiastic post, and I guess you don’t support a particular team, and that’s fine.

I don’t have time for a long post at the moment to debate that the ex-SPFL are/were ‘run badly’. That is a broad brush and totally unfair.

I would massively disagree about the part in bold that all the clubs who have got promoted to SPFL2 and beyond are all well run.  Cove and Kelty had huge amounts of money thrown at them, Spartans lost a lot of money in getting promoted. Edinburgh City, not sure if they chucked money at it to get out the LL, they have certainly spent a fortune since.

Give Berwick, East Stirling, Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers a bunch of money beyond the means of most to spend on players and they probably could manage it as well, although it’s getting ever harder with quite a lot of money kicking around a few teams.

There’s nothing wrong with clubs having money generated by backers, wealthy owners etc, it doesn’t necessarily make them a well run club though.

[cowdenbeath]

45 minutes ago, Cowdenleith said:

It’s an enthusiastic post, and I guess you don’t support a particular team, and that’s fine.

I don’t have time for a long post at the moment to debate that the ex-SPFL are/were ‘run badly’. That is a broad brush and totally unfair.

I would massively disagree about the part in bold that all the clubs who have got promoted to SPFL2 and beyond are all well run.  Cove and Kelty had huge amounts of money thrown at them, Spartans lost a lot of money in getting promoted. Edinburgh City, not sure if they chucked money at it to get out the LL, they have certainly spent a fortune since.

Give Berwick, East Stirling, Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers a bunch of money beyond the means of most to spend on players and they probably could manage it as well, although it’s getting ever harder with quite a lot of money kicking around a few teams.

There’s nothing wrong with clubs having money generated by backers, wealthy owners etc, it doesn’t necessarily make them a well run club though.

Don't think they would have had a lot of money to chuck at it that came along when they got promoted. I would question the OPs well run as well when you look back at last season.

They also done well to get out of here when it was a much poorer league and easy to win.

[parsforlife]

Edinburgh city. Well run? I know ICT are taking the headlines now but are folks memory that short they can't remember last season?

[Shannon]

Even Edinburgh City fans will tell you they are likely one of the least well run clubs in the country over the last 4-5 years. They nearly went out the game and struggled with licensing requirements etc too. They are hardly a solid part time club like Alloa / Arbroath etc

Edited Monday at 11:00 by Shannon

[Jambo'ness]

15 hours ago, edinabear said:

Imagine if the Braves won this. Would be an absolute disaster for the league

The real disaster would be Rangers B coming back!

[Grandmas Enigma]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Edinburgh city. Well run? I know ICT are taking the headlines now but are folks memory that short they can't remember last season?

Are peoples memories so short that they don't remember how these clubs grew and got promoted?

To qualify what I mean by 'well run'. Off the pitch and on the pitch working together well enough to enable on  success on the pitch. There are many ways to do this with and without a big budget. But the end result is similar - success on the pitch.

Edinburgh city were 'well run' when they got promoted - they might not be now. But the point was they needed to be to get out the lowland league. Some clubs spend unbelievable amounts of money ( kelty were referenced above) but they were well run too.

[Grandmas Enigma]

1 hour ago, Shannon said:

Even Edinburgh City fans will tell you they are likely one of the least well run clubs in the country over the last 4-5 years. They nearly went out the game and struggled with licensing requirements etc too. They are hardly a solid part time club like Alloa / Arbroath etc

I appreciate this is true now and on the last few years but it was different before and during their promotion. As I've mentioned on a previous post.

[Grandmas Enigma]

2 hours ago, Cowdenleith said:

It’s an enthusiastic post, and I guess you don’t support a particular team, and that’s fine.

I don’t have time for a long post at the moment to debate that the ex-SPFL are/were ‘run badly’. That is a broad brush and totally unfair.

I would massively disagree about the part in bold that all the clubs who have got promoted to SPFL2 and beyond are all well run.  Cove and Kelty had huge amounts of money thrown at them, Spartans lost a lot of money in getting promoted. Edinburgh City, not sure if they chucked money at it to get out the LL, they have certainly spent a fortune since.

Give Berwick, East Stirling, Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers a bunch of money beyond the means of most to spend on players and they probably could manage it as well, although it’s getting ever harder with quite a lot of money kicking around a few teams.

There’s nothing wrong with clubs having money generated by backers, wealthy owners etc, it doesn’t necessarily make them a well run club though.

These clubs were in the sfl. If they had managed their finances better, hired the right coaches, players, organised their football departments and youth teams better and done all the many other things they needed to do over a varying amount of years, they would still be in the sfl and we wouldn't be discussing them. No chance they just had 1 poor/unlucky season and got relegated. Different parts of each club have been in decline of different periods of time. And looking at their time spent in the lowland league and their underwhelming league challenges they still on the same path.

[Grandmas Enigma]

2 hours ago, cowdenbeath said:

Don't think they would have had a lot of money to chuck at it that came along when they got promoted. I would question the OPs well run as well when you look back at last season.

They also done well to get out of here when it was a much poorer league and easy to win.

Yes some teams spent big but they made that work well enough to enable success. East Kilbride have spent more money cumulatively than any other club in the lowland league. Are they well run? Going by many posters comments, probably not. Money does not guarantee success.

Both bonnyrigg and Edinburgh city did not throw money at their promotions. They built their squads over a long period of time. Their managers cultivated great team spirits and with both clubs players stayed there when they were good enough to progress up the leagues. Plus their committees worked well with their managers. All of that and more was the foundation for their success.

Edited Monday at 13:25 by Grandmas Enigma

[Grandmas Enigma]

I originally posted because I can't be bothered with a forum about football not talking about football. And in true fashion you have done just that.

Some of you might not like what I've said. Which is absolutely fine. But I wish those of you that have responded with excuses and those who appear to have not understood the sentiment behind my post would discuss the actual football with the same fervour. Many of you appear to be passionate about the game albeit more interested in the most boring parts (judging by your posts).

Im sure I'm not the only one on these forums who would love good old football chat with people who love football.

[Cowdenleith]

21 minutes ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I originally posted because I can't be bothered with a forum about football not talking about football. And in true fashion you have done just that.

Some of you might not like what I've said. Which is absolutely fine. But I wish those of you that have responded with excuses and those who appear to have not understood the sentiment behind my post would discuss the actual football with the same fervour. Many of you appear to be passionate about the game albeit more interested in the most boring parts (judging by your posts).

Im sure I'm not the only one on these forums who would love good old football chat with people who love football.

Most people on this part of the forum are fans of small or relatively small Scottish non-league clubs. 

I think it’s natural that ‘we’ are going to be a bit more invested in our club than just what goes on for 90 minutes during the game.  It’s just normal to me to be interested in everything, and I’d find it a bit strange to not want the context behind the 90 minutes on the pitch.

I guess it’s fine what you are looking for, though I’m not quite sure if you are trying to draw people into arguments in a round about way. For that reason I’m out on this one, good luck in your search for pure on the pitch only chat.

[welshbairn]

33 minutes ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I originally posted because I can't be bothered with a forum about football not talking about football. And in true fashion you have done just that.

Some of you might not like what I've said. Which is absolutely fine. But I wish those of you that have responded with excuses and those who appear to have not understood the sentiment behind my post would discuss the actual football with the same fervour. Many of you appear to be passionate about the game albeit more interested in the most boring parts (judging by your posts).

Im sure I'm not the only one on these forums who would love good old football chat with people who love football.

Why don't you post about football then instead of all this off the pitch stuff? 

[jimbaxters]

1 hour ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I originally posted because I can't be bothered with a forum about football not talking about football. And in true fashion you have done just that.

Some of you might not like what I've said. Which is absolutely fine. But I wish those of you that have responded with excuses and those who appear to have not understood the sentiment behind my post would discuss the actual football with the same fervour. Many of you appear to be passionate about the game albeit more interested in the most boring parts (judging by your posts).

Im sure I'm not the only one on these forums who would love good old football chat with people who love football.

Hiya @Bestsinceslicebread, hiya pal!

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, Grandmas Enigma said:

I originally posted because I can't be bothered with a forum about football not talking about football.

This is the thread for general chat about the league. You'll find most of the football talk on the threads about each team, especially after each match, though there's been plenty of discussion here about relegation battle too.

I think there's a fair case to be made that the Lowland League is the most problematically-run league in the pyramid, with some of the big issues being B teams, no guaranteed relegation, a maximum of one promotion slot into it and members playing in an SPFL cup competition with their places not being won on merit. There's also a club that started in the west end of Glasgow before moving to Maryhill, Alloa, Cumbernauld and then Dumbarton, which is patently absurd, so those rooting for them to be relegated and replaced by a club representing an actual community is fair enough.

Alongside that there are two clubs that are financially doped, which "doesn't guarantee success" as you put it but it does make it an awful lot more likely and gives them a huge advantage over clubs that should be their peers. You're absolutely fine with it and that's fair enough, but I think those that really love football would rather clubs find a level based on the support of their communities and not serve as vanity exercises for businessmen.

While there's plenty that's good in the Lowland League too, there's nothing good that isn't equally true of every non-league division. So obviously on the general chat thread for the league we're going to talk about those things instead of routinely posting, "Football, isn't it marvellous, hmm?"

Anyway, let's talk about football like you suggested; what was the last Lowland League game you went to and what did you think about it? I'm asking because, while scolding us for talking about off-pitch matters, you don't have a single post on this board that references an actual football game.

[Grandmas Enigma]

27 minutes ago, GordonS said:

This is the thread for general chat about the league. You'll find most of the football talk on the threads about each team, especially after each match, though there's been plenty of discussion here about relegation battle too.

I think there's a fair case to be made that the Lowland League is the most problematically-run league in the pyramid, with some of the big issues being B teams, no guaranteed relegation, a maximum of one promotion slot into it and members playing in an SPFL cup competition with their places not being won on merit. There's also a club that started in the west end of Glasgow before moving to Maryhill, Alloa, Cumbernauld and then Dumbarton, which is patently absurd, so those rooting for them to be relegated and replaced by a club representing an actual community is fair enough.

Alongside that there are two clubs that are financially doped, which "doesn't guarantee success" as you put it but it does make it an awful lot more likely and gives them a huge advantage over clubs that should be their peers. You're absolutely fine with it and that's fair enough, but I think those that really love football would rather clubs find a level based on the support of their communities and not serve as vanity exercises for businessmen.

While there's plenty that's good in the Lowland League too, there's nothing good that isn't equally true of every non-league division. So obviously on the general chat thread for the league we're going to talk about those things instead of routinely posting, "Football, isn't it marvellous, hmm?"

Anyway, let's talk about football like you suggested; what was the last Lowland League game you went to and what did you think about it? I'm asking because, while scolding us for talking about off-pitch matters, you don't have a single post on this board that references an actual football game.

It doesn't need to be all on pitch chat. But more than the little there is now would be nice. 50/50?

Who are the financially doped clubs? Ek and?

You are correct about my own input, which is what inspired my original post.

The last game I went to was Celtic gretna. Not seen one of the b sides for a while or Gretna since last season when they were poor.

Celtic were ok, move the ball quite sharp, lots of attacking rotations right and left of centre. They were quick but not very physical. Clearly based on the tactics of the big team but to my mind weren't really suited to it. They had a lot of the ball. But it was all a bit fluffy.

Gretna were much better than when I last saw them last season. Decent shape, worked really hard but no real cutting edge. Frustrated Celtic for a lot of the game with their doggedness. It was only 1-0 until the Gretna lad got sent off second yellow with approx 15 to go.

Celtic nowhere near as good as when I saw them 2 years ago. But impressed with the improvement of Gretna as they were much better than I expected. Should definitely compete with the teams around them and I'd be surprised if they went down (assuming they carry on as they have).

[lithgierose]

Cumbernauld colts feeling the pinch ? Management team gone.

[Sir Tarmo]

1 minute ago, lithgierose said:

Cumbernauld colts feeling the pinch ? Management team gone.

Be a shame if they missed out on the Clyde derby

[cowdenbeath]

1 minute ago, lithgierose said:

Cumbernauld colts feeling the pinch ? Management team gone.

Poor run right enough, lost too much good players from last season victims of their own success.