The Queen of the South thread

[QoS_1919]

I read in a previous post about the Rangers vote and maybe that stopped fans coming through the gate. But, I know quite alot of Rangers fans who actually hate us and they're from the town! I see alot on social media and hear alot from Rangers fans that they would never step foot in Palmerston. Obviously unless they were playing at Palmerston. 

Don't understand it at all.  

[The Caul Back]

On Facebook, any truth that a Russian is training with Queens.
Maybe I spy for Mr Puttin lol.

[Steeplechat]

 
Aye great. Fantastic input.
 
My point was to highlight that the people who don't attend matches could be encouraged to maybe go on match days by dangling an inexpensive hook when they are actually at the arena.
 
This thread is great at highlighting why more people don't attend.

Yes , let's no attend the game on Saturday because the club shop wasn't opened midweek . Give it a rest or volunteer yourself

[Steeplechat]

I imagine the club have a data base of season ticket holders etc,
Yet in the summer there is no contact to encourage renewal or to achieve potential new sales.

You would of thought so especially this day and age .

SD ????

[Homer Thompson]

1 hour ago, overthetop said:

I imagine the club have a data base of season ticket holders etc,
Yet in the summer there is no contact to encourage renewal or to achieve potential new sales.

 

10 minutes ago, Steeplechat said:

 

You would of thought so especially this day and age .

SD ????

 

There is and there isnt! As far as I know, most of the season tickets are recorded against the individual seats, I dont think there are contact details.

There is, though, a system sitting waiting that sends out email, and letter, mailshots. The idea was to use it to store all the data on customers - season tickets, prize draw entrants, junior blues, soccer camps etc etc and then send out info to them. There was some work done on putting data into it - and I think an email was sent out for one of the soccer camps - but its not complete or even up to date now.

Needs revisited really

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

There is and there isnt! As far as I know, most of the season tickets are recorded against the individual seats, I dont think there are contact details.

I think there are contact details for the vast majority of people, though a few renewals for people who have had tickets for years may slip through the net especially if done at peak times with a queue. The girls try to ensure the address and phone details are up to date when renewing I think. I've not been directly involved in season ticket sales since the office moved away from the stadium though so I don't know how thoroughly it's done, especially on matchdays.

The season ticket database is not a particularly user friendly system though and the extraction of data from it is not easy. Looking up an individual's details is easy. Extracting data en masse for a mailshot is, as far as I know, not possible. The whole thing could do with being started again but that's a big project probably to be done in conjunction with changing the turnstiles to electronic at some future point and probably not a massive priority given our general crowd sizes. For the time being we've neither the manpower nor funds to make that investment.

[Homer Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I think there are contact details for the vast majority of people, though a few renewals for people who have had tickets for years may slip through the net especially if done at peak times with a queue. The girls try to ensure the address and phone details are up to date when renewing I think. I've not been directly involved in season ticket sales since the office moved away from the stadium though so I don't know how thoroughly it's done, especially on matchdays.

The season ticket database is not a particularly user friendly system though and the extraction of data from it is not easy. Looking up an individual's details is easy. Extracting data en masse for a mailshot is, as far as I know, not possible. The whole thing could do with being started again but that's a big project probably to be done in conjunction with changing the turnstiles to electronic at some future point and probably not a massive priority given our general crowd sizes. For the time being we've neither the manpower nor funds to make that investment.

Im not sure it needs starting again, as such - although you're right about being able to extract data from the ticket system, its not possible. If I remember rightly, what was discussed at the time was noting contact details separately (particularly email addresses) to then input into the mailing system. As far as I know, nothings ever been done though

I assume you're talking about a new turnstile system as not being a priority? I would agree with that but building up a customer database allowing the club to market to fans should be a pretty high priority, in my opinion.

[NorthSouth]

Yes , let's no attend the game on Saturday because the club shop wasn't opened midweek . Give it a rest or volunteer yourself

At what point did I say that.

My point is that it's an opportunity to engage more people that is missed.

[louisxiv]

1 hour ago, QoS_1919 said:

I read in a previous post about the Rangers vote and maybe that stopped fans coming through the gate. But, I know quite alot of Rangers fans who actually hate us and they're from the town! I see alot on social media and hear alot from Rangers fans that they would never step foot in Palmerston. Obviously unless they were playing at Palmerston. 

Don't understand it at all.  

I think a significant number of Rangers fans hate everyone.

[Skyline Drifter]

14 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I assume you're talking about a new turnstile system as not being a priority? I would agree with that but building up a customer database allowing the club to market to fans should be a pretty high priority, in my opinion.

Yes, that's what I meant. Well more exactly what I meant was that changing the season ticket system wouldn't be a priority until we were in a position to need to do it to fit in with new turnstiles but it's the same thing. It's not directly connected to whether we should have a marketing database. The point is though that to organise a mailshot specifically of season ticket holders would be a manually labour intensive process using the current system. It would also be costly using physical mail. Clearly it wouldn't for those for whom we had email addresses but then those people are probably already monitoring the website and reading social media where there are plenty of reminders and promotion. It's not those people who probably need the encouragement.

[Homer Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yes, that's what I meant. Well more exactly what I meant was that changing the season ticket system wouldn't be a priority until we were in a position to need to do it to fit in with new turnstiles but it's the same thing. It's not directly connected to whether we should have a marketing database. The point is though that to organise a mailshot specifically of season ticket holders would be a manually labour intensive process using the current system. It would also be costly using physical mail. Clearly it wouldn't for those for whom we had email addresses but then those people are probably already monitoring the website and reading social media where there are plenty of reminders and promotion. It's not those people who probably need the encouragement.

Yes, but it doesnt need a new ticket system to make it possible.

Personally, I think you're final assumption is a dangerous one to make. You're probably right that those people are on the website and/or social media regularly but I dont believe that means they wouldnt respond to email marketing too. Theres also a broader opportunity to email them about other things around the club. 

[HoBNob]

I don't think it's especially similar, Dunfermline and it's immediately surrounding environs are much bigger than Dumfries:
List of Scottish Towns & Cities by Population
Appreciate it's Wiki but the source seems reasonable. By that Dunfermline itself has a population of about 150% of ours. Including immediately surrounding areas such as Inverkeithing and Rosyth takes them to about double us at over 70,000 (albeit for some reason our total doesn't appear to include Locharbriggs even in the "Settlements" list). We're much more similar to for instance, but still smaller than, Airdrie and Stirling, towns we are doing considerably better than.

There's also far, far, far more teams in the surrounding area, while you may be similar in size to Airdrie and Stirling you haven't got anything comparable in terms of teams competing for those people, you've also got the added caveat that QoTS are the biggest team in there area, how far north do you have to go to find a team bigger than QoTS? Compare that now to Airdrie and Stirling.

Even with Dunfermline the second you go south you've got the chance of people working in Edinburgh and having more allegiances to Hearts/Hibs.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

16 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

 

There's also far, far, far more teams in the surrounding area, while you may be similar in size to Airdrie and Stirling you haven't got anything comparable in terms of teams competing for those people, you've also got the added caveat that QoTS are the biggest team in there area, how far north do you have to go to find a team bigger than QoTS? Compare that now to Airdrie and Stirling.

Even with Dunfermline the second you go south you've got the chance of people working in Edinburgh and having more allegiances to Hearts/Hibs.

 

You all make valid points but the fact of the matter are that all our towns are full of fans of the Old Firm I.e. gloryhunters and bigots who never go to games. 

Thats the biggest drain on us ever getting bigger supports.

[louisxiv]

28 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

You all make valid points but the fact of the matter are that all our towns are full of fans of the Old Firm I.e. gloryhunters and bigots who never go to games. 

Thats the biggest drain on us ever getting bigger supports.

This.

[Skyline Drifter]

34 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

There's also far, far, far more teams in the surrounding area, while you may be similar in size to Airdrie and Stirling you haven't got anything comparable in terms of teams competing for those people, you've also got the added caveat that QoTS are the biggest team in there area, how far north do you have to go to find a team bigger than QoTS? Compare that now to Airdrie and Stirling.

Even with Dunfermline the second you go south you've got the chance of people working in Edinburgh and having more allegiances to Hearts/Hibs.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

You all make valid points but the fact of the matter are that all our towns are full of fans of the Old Firm I.e. gloryhunters and bigots who never go to games. 

Thats the biggest drain on us ever getting bigger supports.

Yeah well, this for a start.

But to be more detailed, there's far more teams in the surrounding area but there are also far greater population centres. It's easy to say Dunfermline have got more competition from Raith, Cowdenbeath and East Fife than we have from Annan but those clubs also have their own population centres, they probably aren't drawing it from Dunfermline generally. There are a lot more people in Fife outside Dunfermline than there are in Dumfriesshire outside Dumfries. Mileage is a really bad way to compare potential catchement. I could put a team in the middle of the Sahara and have no other teams for a thousand miles but nobody would watch them!

Dunfermline are also the biggest team in Fife, as we are the biggest in D&G. Yes you are closer to equivalent sized clubs in mileage terms than we are but there are also far bigger populations in those smaller gaps. There's 60 miles between us and Kilmarnock but very few settlements of any size on the Nithsdale side of the Border (Sanquhar / Kirkconnel / Kelloholm / Thornhill).

To answer your question literally, "bigger" is of course subjective. The closest "bigger" team is Carlisle United actually which is about 35 miles South. In Scottish terms the closest which is definitely bigger is Kilmarnock at 60 miles North. Ayr is about the same but they haven't been "bigger" for a good few years. Hamilton and Motherwell are both about 65 miles away too. The limit of our catchment North though is probably Sanquhar up the A76 28 miles, and Moffat up the A701 20 miles.

I take the point about Airdrie and Stirling of course and when they are not doing well and languishing in the lower Leagues, it's easier for people in those places to go take in a decent standard of football elsewhere than it is for people in Dumfries.

[KingfaetheSooth]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Yes, but it doesnt need a new ticket system to make it possible.

Personally, I think you're final assumption is a dangerous one to make. You're probably right that those people are on the website and/or social media regularly but I dont believe that means they wouldnt respond to email marketing too. Theres also a broader opportunity to email them about other things around the club. 

What is needed is a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) system that manages customer interactions with the club and as a result improves business relationships with customers/fans. It should be an integrated system that plans to increase revenue.  It doesn't need to be linked to to turnstiles or matchday sales but it needs to record every interaction someone has with the club. 

There are a number of 'off the shelf' packages but ideally it needs to be one deigned and used for sport/football. AFC Wimbledon have just gone live on a system after 18 months of planning where they talked, consulted and were helped by a number of other football clubs. It's a massive commitment but will bring a number of benefits and improve revenue streams and the bottom line. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by KingfaetheSooth

[Homer Thompson]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

 

There is and there isnt! As far as I know, most of the season tickets are recorded against the individual seats, I dont think there are contact details.

There is, though, a system sitting waiting that sends out email, and letter, mailshots. The idea was to use it to store all the data on customers - season tickets, prize draw entrants, junior blues, soccer camps etc etc and then send out info to them. There was some work done on putting data into it - and I think an email was sent out for one of the soccer camps - but its not complete or even up to date now.

Needs revisited really

 

16 minutes ago, KingfaetheSooth said:

What is needed is a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) system that manages customer interactions with the club and as a result improves business relationships with customers/fans. It should be an integrated system that plans to increase revenue.  It doesn't need to be linked to to turnstiles or matchday sales but it needs to record every interaction someone has with the club. 

There are a number of 'off the shelf' packages but ideally it needs to be one deigned and used for sport/football. AFC Wimbledon have just gone live on a system after 18 months of planning where they talked, consulted and were helped by a number of other football clubs. It's a massive commitment but will bring a number of benefits and improve revenue streams and the bottom line. 

 

[KingfaetheSooth]

51 minutes ago, Mr X said:

 

 

Yes, I saw that, but a CRM system is much more than marketing database. If Queens really do have an integrated CRM system that's not being used, fair enough, but you'd have to question why it's not being used. 

Probably more important to get the club actually communicating with the fans first and asking them their opinions. Small steps and all that. Speaking of which, any news on the appointment of a new Fan Liaison bod? 

[Homer Thompson]

Yes, I saw that, but a CRM system is much more than marketing database. If Queens really do have an integrated CRM system that's not being used, fair enough, but you'd have to question why it's not being used. 
Probably more important to get the club actually communicating with the fans first and asking them their opinions. Small steps and all that. Speaking of which, any news on the appointment of a new Fan Liaison bod? 

It is a proper CRM system, I thought the winky face gave that away.

If you've read the last few pages I think it's pretty obvious why it's not being used.

[McGuigan1978]

To give you a rough idea of how much work is involved in a club sending out correspondence to a mailing list, I help put one together for Raith Rovers each week, which goes out to approximately 2,300 folk.

 

We were essentially starting from scratch as we didn't have too many email addresses, other than some who took part in the lottery or that we'd had on file through season tickets sales etc.

 

We realised we had an opportunity with the Ramsdens Cup final, so asked each person buying a ticket for their email details.

 

This involved volunteers working shifts over a two or three day period to take those details, which all then had to be inputed into a system.

 

Considering we had literally hundreds of emails addresses, you can imagine how long that took.

 

We also have a button on the website where folk can sign up for the newsletter.

 

In terms of putting the actual email together, it probably takes me a couple of hours to do each week, before another volunteer checks it over and adds a few bits and bobs, which maybe takes another hour or so.

 

The feedback on it has been reasonably favourable, but it's a genuinely massive piece of work, and extremely time consuming.