The Queen of the South thread

[Fae_the_'briggs]

6 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

No, there's a provision in the accounts noting that we have a future liability to pay for a pitch. There's not a separate set aside cash sum.

Thanks, I think you explained that before but I couldn't be bothered  searching back for it. 

[QoS99]

Burrell signs for Cove, would have liked him at us to be honest.

[qos1990]

5 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

Burrell signs for Cove, would have liked him at us to be honest.

Better as Russell McLean anyway

[QoS99]

1 hour ago, qos1990 said:

Better as Russell McLean anyway

Not too difficult is it. Not questioning MB as a coach but his recruitment this summer seems questionable, his good recruitment in January though makes me feel slightly better about it

[Monkey Tennis]

They've put the goals back up on the new pitch.  There's even nets on one of them.

Despite the whelming signings, the sight had me salivating on my shoes as I peered through the fence.

[Manwithnoball]

2 hours ago, QoS99 said:

Not too difficult is it. Not questioning MB as a coach but his recruitment this summer seems questionable, his good recruitment in January though makes me feel slightly better about it

I'm sorry but we had the optimism of the signings we made last summer and we know how that went. But we have a selection of young underrated players by previous clubs and others we are linked to that are underwhelming to say the least. No matter how good a coach MB is we should be going for a better quality of player. Burrell is a classic example the boy can score goals where we have 4 that can't. Kilday is another example surely we can compete with Hamilton for wages. It will be really interesting to see how the start of the season goes with these players we have brought in. We know what the re-signings can and can't do but the rest we need to see. 

[19QOS19]

49 minutes ago, Manwithnoball said:

I'm sorry but we had the optimism of the signings we made last summer and we know how that went. But we have a selection of young underrated players by previous clubs and others we are linked to that are underwhelming to say the least. No matter how good a coach MB is we should be going for a better quality of player. Burrell is a classic example the boy can score goals where we have 4 that can't. Kilday is another example surely we can compete with Hamilton for wages. It will be really interesting to see how the start of the season goes with these players we have brought in. We know what the re-signings can and can't do but the rest we need to see. 

Our next striker is going to be massive for MB*. The three we have the now aren't going to blow the division away so we need one who will ideally chip in with a few goals for us. I must admit for as much as I liked him against us, if Burrell was the final piece of the puzzle I'd be very worried. He scored 9 last season (more than the 3 we have, granted), 3 of which was against our mob. I wouldn't be much more confident than I am now if we had signed him. 

I'm kind of hoping for a bit of an unknown from down the road at this point. 

 

* If he is planning of playing Connelly as an outright striker I feel slightly more confident. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by 19QOS19

[QoS99]

2 hours ago, Manwithnoball said:

I'm sorry but we had the optimism of the signings we made last summer and we know how that went. But we have a selection of young underrated players by previous clubs and others we are linked to that are underwhelming to say the least. No matter how good a coach MB is we should be going for a better quality of player. Burrell is a classic example the boy can score goals where we have 4 that can't. Kilday is another example surely we can compete with Hamilton for wages. It will be really interesting to see how the start of the season goes with these players we have brought in. We know what the re-signings can and can't do but the rest we need to see. 

Yeah I agree fully. I worry for us if we don’t bring in more experience throughout the team (particularly at centre half) for the season. As I said though, MB’s recruitment in January was decent so got to hope he can do the same again, regardless if we have doubts over it currently…

[Kunter]

21 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

That's hardly a crime though is it?  We don't have a benevolent mega-rich benefactor like Lord Haughey who is bank rolling the new Glasgow (ex QP) Gretna to fund management and playing staff that we can't afford.  Personally, I prefer it our way, which is hopefully sustainable.

I get that you're frustrated with the apparent lack of quality in some of our signings, but what's the alternative?  Taking it to extremes, Marvin could sign just 11 players who are all of a decent quality but that wouldn't allow for substitutes who are inevitably required during games and it wouldn't provide the squad cover for the inevitable injuries and suspensions which always transpire during the course of a season.  Hence, he has to dilute his approach/budget so that he develops a squad of 20 or so with a mix of quality/experience and younger players with potential that he can hopefully develop through coaching.  In an ideal world its not what Marvin (or most fans) would want but its the nature of 3rd tier football up here and he knew what he was taking on.  He also knew that there's potential at QOS to perform at a higher level and that gives him a platform to develop his CV in management towards future steps up the ladder with larger clubs ... a win-win for all parties if it works.

Unfortunately, life ain't perfect but we make the most of what we have.

If we are to get out of this division promptly then the only way to do that is to bring ready made players in not a young development squad. 

If we just want to live within our means without any form of cash injection*when required* then we have ourselves a long term project which could see us in league one inevitably. 

The Connolly years; we didn't bring in a load of young players and we absolutely romped the league. Bit of investment and thinking outside the box brought us the success. 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Kunter said:

The Connolly years; we didn't bring in a load of young players and we absolutely romped the league. Bit of investment and thinking outside the box brought us the success. 

Connolly signed 70 odd players , mostly in the first two seasons, in a scattergun approach in the days before windows, and took two years to get out of this division. We were also part time then. That approach both wont work and cant be done now. He got far more wrong than right initially and the only player from his first built squad still with us when we won the league 2 years later was Weatherson.

Thats an awful comparison.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skyline Drifter

[Distant Doonhamer]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Connolly signed 70 odd players , mostly in the first two seasons, in a scattergun approach in the days before windows, and took two years to get out of this division. We were also part time then. That approach both wont work and cant be done now. He got far more wrong than right initially and the only player from his first built squad still with us when we won the league 2 years later was Weatherson.

Thats an awful comparison.

Was Paddy Atkinson not still with us when we won the league? 
I thought he was a cracking player. As you suggest though many of Connolly’s signings were not the required standard. 

[Passionate]

21 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

We got a (UK) Government grant towards the pitch upgrade (£170,000 rings a bell) I  believe, Gretna 2008 got a grant towards upgrading their floodlights at the same time.. Our local Westminster MPs  were in the papers heralding the granting of the money which was awarded under each Club's Community Trust Schemes. 

Pretty sure Falkirk got the same pitch grant, which is fine and the way it should be, and even a grant for upgrading the floodlights,   does it not grate on yourselves that 350 k interest free was given to Falkirk or sorry the Humza 11,   personally I think it is shameful,   what chance do other sides have , well apart from John McG lynn being their manager

[Fae_the_'briggs]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Connolly signed 70 odd players , mostly in the first two seasons, in a scattergun approach in the days before windows, and took two years to get out of this division. We were also part time then. That approach both wont work and cant be done now. He got far more wrong than right initially and the only player from his first built squad still with us when we won the league 2 years later was Weatherson.

Thats an awful comparison.

Aye but Billy Hewitson wasn't the Chairman then so Kunter won't be bothered with details. I agree it was about the worst comparison Kunter could have made, but I'm somehow not surprised. 

[Greenacres]

11 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Our next striker is going to be massive for MB*. The three we have the now aren't going to blow the division away so we need one who will ideally chip in with a few goals for us. I must admit for as much as I liked him against us, if Burrell was the final piece of the puzzle I'd be very worried. He scored 9 last season (more than the 3 we have, granted), 3 of which was against our mob. I wouldn't be much more confident than I am now if we had signed him. 

I'm kind of hoping for a bit of an unknown from down the road at this point. 

 

* If he is planning of playing Connelly as an outright striker I feel slightly more confident. 

Our next 2 signing are crucial a decent striker and centre half .

It is a gamble bringing unknown players  from down South but Ayo was a good signing plus look at Ayr they got Dipo from nowhere .

It is going to be very  difficult to replace Paton right now we have no goals in the team .

O,Hara  ex Dunfermline and Brownlie are the type we should be going for .

[Slipmat]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Connolly signed 70 odd players , mostly in the first two seasons, in a scattergun approach in the days before windows, and took two years to get out of this division. We were also part time then. That approach both wont work and cant be done now. He got far more wrong than right initially and the only player from his first built squad still with us when we won the league 2 years later was Weatherson.

Thats an awful comparison.

Definitely this.

Despite being mistakenly (in my opinion) remembered for his "North East Revolution" , the majority of Connolly's signings from the Northern League were duds who made a handful of appearances before being shipped back to obscurity.  

In Connolly's first game in charge he lined up with:

David Mathieson, Paddy Atkinson*, Andy Martin*, Andy Aitken, Sandy Hodge, Jon Sunderland*, Denis Boyle, Tony Nelson*, Mark Weir, Warren Hawke, & Peter Weatherson* with Dean Muir*, Phil Nixon*, Bryan Caldwell, Ross Atkinson* and Tommy Muirhead on the bench.

* denotes Connolly signing.

If I recall Martin, Nelson & Ross Atkinson were all back in Geordieland before Christmas and a revolving door of players would come in one month and were gone by the next having been deemed unsuitable - Steve Preen, Paul Hollier, Jarod Suddick, Kane Young, Stuart Hepple etc.  By mid-season Connolly was recruiting mainly from Scotland bringing in experienced mainstays such as Des McKeown, Paul Kinnaird, John O'Neill, Colin Scott & Ronnie McQuilter.  All players who were nearing the end of their careers other than Scott (terrible record with injuries who arrived as a back-up) and O'Neill, and none of whom I would imagine have commanded much of the investment Kunter refers to.  

Connolly's success really began when he stopped, to quote Kunter, "thinking outside the box".  The "Connolly Revolution" has gained an increased mythical status as some kind of genius plan that was based solely on recruiting unknowns from the English non-league game as the years have passed. 

It wasn't.

 

 

[Homer Thompson]

20 minutes ago, Slipmat said:

Definitely this.

Despite being mistakenly (in my opinion) remembered for his "North East Revolution" , the majority of Connolly's signings from the Northern League were duds who made a handful of appearances before being shipped back to obscurity.  

In Connolly's first game in charge he lined up with:

David Mathieson, Paddy Atkinson*, Andy Martin*, Andy Aitken, Sandy Hodge, Jon Sunderland*, Denis Boyle, Tony Nelson*, Mark Weir, Warren Hawke, & Peter Weatherson* with Dean Muir*, Phil Nixon*, Bryan Caldwell, Ross Atkinson* and Tommy Muirhead on the bench.

* denotes Connolly signing.

If I recall Martin, Nelson & Ross Atkinson were all back in Geordieland before Christmas and a revolving door of players would come in one month and were gone by the next having been deemed unsuitable - Steve Preen, Paul Hollier, Jarod Suddick, Kane Young, Stuart Hepple etc.  By mid-season Connolly was recruiting mainly from Scotland bringing in experienced mainstays such as Des McKeown, Paul Kinnaird, John O'Neill, Colin Scott & Ronnie McQuilter.  All players who were nearing the end of their careers other than Scott (terrible record with injuries who arrived as a back-up) and O'Neill, and none of whom I would imagine have commanded much of the investment Kunter refers to.  

Connolly's success really began when he stopped, to quote Kunter, "thinking outside the box".  The "Connolly Revolution" has gained an increased mythical status as some kind of genius plan that was based solely on recruiting unknowns from the English non-league game as the years have passed. 

It wasn't.

 

 

Ah, Tony Nelson. The player I was the most wrong about! During pre-season, I thought he was exactly the kind of dig we needed in midfield. Sent off in, I think, his first competitive game and never seen again 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Was Paddy Atkinson not still with us when we won the league? 
I thought he was a cracking player. As you suggest though many of Connolly’s signings were not the required standard. 

He was, and I hadn't forgotten him, I was just convinced he arrived later than the initial revolution. However, as Slipmat posted below, he was in fact there from the first summer so apologies, two of his original squad made it to promotion.

52 minutes ago, Slipmat said:

Definitely this.

Despite being mistakenly (in my opinion) remembered for his "North East Revolution" , the majority of Connolly's signings from the Northern League were duds who made a handful of appearances before being shipped back to obscurity.  

In Connolly's first game in charge he lined up with:

David Mathieson, Paddy Atkinson*, Andy Martin*, Andy Aitken, Sandy Hodge, Jon Sunderland*, Denis Boyle, Tony Nelson*, Mark Weir, Warren Hawke, & Peter Weatherson* with Dean Muir*, Phil Nixon*, Bryan Caldwell, Ross Atkinson* and Tommy Muirhead on the bench.

* denotes Connolly signing.

If I recall Martin, Nelson & Ross Atkinson were all back in Geordieland before Christmas and a revolving door of players would come in one month and were gone by the next having been deemed unsuitable - Steve Preen, Paul Hollier, Jarod Suddick, Kane Young, Stuart Hepple etc.  By mid-season Connolly was recruiting mainly from Scotland bringing in experienced mainstays such as Des McKeown, Paul Kinnaird, John O'Neill, Colin Scott & Ronnie McQuilter.  All players who were nearing the end of their careers other than Scott (terrible record with injuries who arrived as a back-up) and O'Neill, and none of whom I would imagine have commanded much of the investment Kunter refers to.  

Connolly's success really began when he stopped, to quote Kunter, "thinking outside the box".  The "Connolly Revolution" has gained an increased mythical status as some kind of genius plan that was based solely on recruiting unknowns from the English non-league game as the years have passed. 

It wasn't.

This. 100% this.

Connolly, whether by luck or judgement, eventually assembled the right combination of journeymen, and young prospects, to get us promoted but only really clicked it after a year and a half (we were sitting 3rd or 4th about Xmas in the Championship season I think).

By the time we were promoted only Paddy Atkinson and Peter Weatherson from the "North East revolution" were in the side plus a bit part role for Steve Bowey who only arrived in late February of the title season and didn't become a first team regular until the following season although people often mis-remember him as being central to the title win.

The team that clinched the title at Forfar back in April 2002 was:
Colin Scott, Paddy Atkinson, Andy Aitken, Jim Thomson, Derek Anderson, Alan Gray, Graham Connell, John O'Neill, Joe McAlpine, Derek Lyle and Peter Weatherson.
Sean O'Connor, Steve Bowey & John Crawford came off the bench. Luke Donald and Stuart Dawson (GK) were unused.

He won a watch when John O'Neill fell into his lap and having Lyle, Weatherson and O'Connor as a front three is riches Marvin can only dream of up front (we paid transfer fees for all three of those).

[Greenacres]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He was, and I hadn't forgotten him, I was just convinced he arrived later than the initial revolution. However, as Slipmat posted below, he was in fact there from the first summer so apologies, two of his original squad made it to promotion.

This. 100% this.

Connolly, whether by luck or judgement, eventually assembled the right combination of journeymen, and young prospects, to get us promoted but only really clicked it after a year and a half (we were sitting 3rd or 4th about Xmas in the Championship season I think).

By the time we were promoted only Paddy Atkinson and Peter Weatherson from the "North East revolution" were in the side plus a bit part role for Steve Bowey who only arrived in late February of the title season and didn't become a first team regular until the following season although people often mis-remember him as being central to the title win.

The team that clinched the title at Forfar back in April 2002 was:
Colin Scott, Paddy Atkinson, Andy Aitken, Jim Thomson, Derek Anderson, Alan Gray, Graham Connell, John O'Neill, Joe McAlpine, Derek Lyle and Peter Weatherson.
Sean O'Connor, Steve Bowey & John Crawford came off the bench. Luke Donald and Stuart Dawson (GK) were unused.

He won a watch when John O'Neill fell into his lap and having Lyle, Weatherson and O'Connor as a front three is riches Marvin can only dream of up front (we paid transfer fees for all three of those).

We only need one this time can Marvin not splash out on a decent striker or is that a dream.

 

[Kunter]

6 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Connolly signed 70 odd players , mostly in the first two seasons, in a scattergun approach in the days before windows, and took two years to get out of this division. We were also part time then. That approach both wont work and cant be done now. He got far more wrong than right initially and the only player from his first built squad still with us when we won the league 2 years later was Weatherson.

Thats an awful comparison.

The point is there was investment. Money was put in and we gained automatic promotion comfortably and competed well in the championship for a number of seasons even being part time. 

Since being relegated we can't be far off 50% of that figure of players released and current,, one manager down and technically have more of a advantage being we're full time and have the bonus of getting up via a play off system. 

What nearly sent us under was the Chisholm / Rae years buying expensive has been players we didn't even need. 

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

18 minutes ago, Kunter said:

The point is there was investment. Money was put in and we gained automatic promotion comfortably and competed well in the championship for a number of seasons even being part time. 

Since being relegated we can't be far off 50% of that figure of players released and current,, one manager down and technically have more of a advantage being we're full time and have the bonus of getting up via a play off system. 

What nearly sent us under was the Chisholm / Rae years buying expensive has been players we didn't even need. 

That wasnt your point though. Its what you've retrospectively decided to make your point after your 'outside the box' mantra was debunked as absolute nonsense.