How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Dons_1988]

That answer was laughable and depressing. Just total deflection. 

Do sky do enough to promote the whole premiership and not two clubs?

Of course they do, they covered a women’s game at parkhead and ibrox. 

[joewarkfanclub]

I get that Doncaster is just a lightning rod for the clubs, but it SHOULD be his job to grow the game and promote the whole league rather than just the big two. 

However, that would take the chief execs of all the other clubs to grow a set and challenge the status quo.

Unfortunately there is too much risk attached to that for any of them to put their heads above the parapet.

Im wondering now that Alan Burrows is at Aberdeen and with a more powerful club whether he might seek to address some of these issues.

He is a proper football man and did a lot for Motherwell in his tenure. Unfortunately we aint a big enough club to wield enough power to get things done.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

40 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I get that Doncaster is just a lightning rod for the clubs, but it SHOULD be his job to grow the game and promote the whole league rather than just the big two. 

However, that would take the chief execs of all the other clubs to grow a set and challenge the status quo.

Unfortunately there is too much risk attached to that for any of them to put their heads above the parapet.

Im wondering now that Alan Burrows is at Aberdeen and with a more powerful club whether he might seek to address some of these issues.

He is a proper football man and did a lot for Motherwell in his tenure. Unfortunately we aint a big enough club to wield enough power to get things done.

 

Don't hold your breath.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

However, that would take the chief execs of all the other clubs to grow a set and challenge the status quo.

None of our clubs look beyond their own narrow self-interest, and usually short-term interest at that.

Your club, my club, the clubs you like, the clubs you dislike.

I'm sure Aberdeen, like Hearts, are keen to see the gap between them and the OF narrow. But they (like Hearts) have got no interest in making sure clubs live Livi, Motherwell, and St Mirren can compete with them. It's trying to climb up the ladder from where they are while cutting the ladder off beneath them. For that reason, getting the 'other' clubs to work together on anything will never happen.

The idea that true competition could benefit us all will never get any traction as short-termism and self-interest wins every time. Covid is a good example of this. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation, pretty much every club in the country simply argued for whatever was in their interest and all presented it as 'good of the game' stuff. It will always be thus.

It's all through the game. Look at the SPFL lower league's approach to relegation out of League Two.

Nothing will change in that regard.

Edited May 28, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Dons_1988]

The Doncaster interview really just confirms what I already knew but it’s still really depressing to listen to, particularly given he is just voicing the clubs view. 

The fact that the competition is completely distorted by finances isn’t even acknowledged as an issue. Actively rejected as an issue because other countries have big clubs. Pathetic deflection. 

Meaningful change requires a whole host of talents and ethos that this league just doesn’t have. It would require risk taking and the potential for short term failure which boardrooms just don’t want to put their name to. It’s very easy to hold out your hands and say we can’t do anything about it and make your legacy about easier things like league placings, top 6 or if you’re extremely lucky a trophy. 

 

[skinny arab]

The problem can’t be solved and because of this United have decided to boycott the league next year (and maybe a couple more). 

[CambieBud]

The answer is now crystal clear.

complete overhaul and a top league of 10. Consisting of Celtic, Celtic B, Celtic C, Celtic D and E along with their business partners equivalent. Scotland will then win all international tournaments from under 17 upwards. 
Everyone else to provide all young talent for free to the above.

Problem solved

[Charles Stiles]

I'm genuinely amazed that so many diddy fans still haven't realised that the real problem with Scottish football is their own club and their Stockholm Syndrome. It's too late. The chance for genuine change came and went simply because the diddy clubs wanted it that way. Scottish football will never change.

[Mark Connolly]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I get that Doncaster is just a lightning rod for the clubs, but it SHOULD be his job to grow the game and promote the whole league rather than just the big two. 

However, that would take the chief execs of all the other clubs to grow a set and challenge the status quo.

Unfortunately there is too much risk attached to that for any of them to put their heads above the parapet.

Im wondering now that Alan Burrows is at Aberdeen and with a more powerful club whether he might seek to address some of these issues.

He is a proper football man and did a lot for Motherwell in his tenure. Unfortunately we aint a big enough club to wield enough power to get things done.

 

Yes, Aberdeen have a great record of standing up for change...

[joewarkfanclub]

6 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Yes, Aberdeen have a great record of standing up for change...

I know they dont. But Burrows does....

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I know they dont. But Burrows does....

They've  given him a job, not handed him the keys.

[Dundee Hibernian]

On 26/05/2023 at 10:42, VincentGuerin said:

It's not his job to improve the game. It's his job to take abuse for the clubs.

 

On 26/05/2023 at 10:48, Dons_1988 said:

He’s a lightning rod. The clubs are in charge of this agenda. 

The clubs do not want to put their name to a system of status quo and ambition being eeking a small amount more money out of sky for showing old firm games. 

I've always thought the same as this, that Doncaster is acting for the clubs, but his recent appointment as one of the two directors of the SFA sponsored Conference league suggestion makes me wonder if this is entirely the case.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

On 27/05/2023 at 10:38, derektaylor84 said:

I emailed in the question about promoting the league other than for 2 teams. The bit they didn’t read out was about Sky always picking Celtic & Rangers away games which are usually one sided games that casual viewers will quickly turn off. That leads to not being able to show meaningful matches in the bottom 6 at the end of the season due to the 4 live matches per stadium. He didn’t answer the question (and many others on show), saying about the great coverage of the final day of the SWPL season, which was decent, but if it was say Hearts, Hibs and Spartans going for the title on final game would Sky follow the car with the trophy. 
 

www.youtube.com/@DerekTaylor84

This one is fairly simple even though you would wish it was not the case. sky always show the old firm away game because that will be the game with the largest amount of viewers,  that and the 4 games per stadium limit means they are limited to the old firms home games,  

When the OF are away from home, they only get a few thousand tickets, there will be another 40-  50k season ticket holders who can't go to the game, both clubs also have large home TV audiences, and also a large number of fans in Ireland.  Also, because they seldom play their matches at the same time, fans of one side tune in to their rivals game when it's televised to see the result and what it means for the league.

There are only a couple of exceptions to this, 1. an Edinburgh derby & 2. when rangers are at home to one of Hearts Hibs or Aberdeen whilst Celtic are away to a Ross county or a Dundee  - or vice versa( I picked those 2 as clubs like livi or St Johnstone give them generous ticket allocations) But even in that scenario they are hampered by the 4 home games limit. 

 

No matter how much you don't like it, St Mirren V Motherwell for a place in the top 6 just isn't going to get enough viewers for a commercial entity like sky

 

[Swello]

9 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

No matter how much you don't like it, St Mirren V Motherwell for a place in the top 6 just isn't going to get enough viewers for a commercial entity like sky

I think that would be a niche interest regardless - but Hearts vs Aberdeen for 3rd place wasn't, ditto Edinburgh Derby games - and relegation six pointers of the type we've seen over the past weeks are interesting beyond their immediate fanbase (Bottom 6 coverage being zero this year when Sky had games left was pathetic). 

If Sky calibrate their viewing figures to a country of 65 million, then any scottish game will be poor in terms of viewing figures - if they calibrate it to a country of 5 million, it's probably a different story.

[CambieBud]

Does anyone know what viewing figures Sky get for any of their live games? I may be wrong but I read somewhere that even The EPL games average a few hundred thousand in the UK

[VincentGuerin]

23 minutes ago, CambieBud said:

Does anyone know what viewing figures Sky get for any of their live games? I may be wrong but I read somewhere that even The EPL games average a few hundred thousand in the UK

Sky are quite cagey about the figures, and always have been. Probably because they're much lower than your average punter might think for the Premier League, and generally really low for the EFL.

This is the most recent I could find.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfpl-tv-viewing-figures-outcompete-25412708

[underboyleheating]

On 25/08/2022 at 22:58, G51 said:

Because they'll spend it on shite like Kevin Van Veen. 

You need serious help. I would start with a trip to Specsavers. On current form Van Veen would walk in to any Scottish Premier league team. The man is a goal machine.

[PrestersKTID]

3 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

No matter how much you don't like it, St Mirren V Motherwell for a place in the top 6 just isn't going to get enough viewers for a commercial entity like sky

 

When we think like that we then miss out on actual good games. Majority of tv viewers see majority of the teams as "hammer throwers" or "farmers league" etc etc, that's always going to be the case when you only see the teams playing rangers or celtic. Teams set up the only way they can to compete, you're not going to open up and try fancy football especially with the gulf the way it is atm. Killie played 2 strikers in last game against celtic and got pumped 5-1. Dundee united pumped 9-0 that does nothing for the perception of the league.

You then miss out on actual entertaining games. Motherwell 6-6 Hibs was on TV. Remember an old Killie HIbs game on sky friday night 4-2. But when have those games been given a chance since?

The edinburgh derby should be on tv anyway, then a game for europe should definitely be on. Tense affair with drama at the end. 

The 2 relegation games yesterday had 9 goals between them. the midweek games also had 9 goals. Meaningful games with bigger crowds, ridiculous that neither those games or the midweek games featured at all.  

Sky had 3 games on yesterday and flashed between them when a goal went in. Could easily have done similar on wednesday.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

14 minutes ago, PrestersKTID said:

When we think like that we then miss out on actual good games. Majority of tv viewers see majority of the teams as "hammer throwers" or "farmers league" etc etc, that's always going to be the case when you only see the teams playing rangers or celtic. Teams set up the only way they can to compete, you're not going to open up and try fancy football especially with the gulf the way it is atm. Killie played 2 strikers in last game against celtic and got pumped 5-1. Dundee united pumped 9-0 that does nothing for the perception of the league.

You then miss out on actual entertaining games. Motherwell 6-6 Hibs was on TV. Remember an old Killie HIbs game on sky friday night 4-2. But when have those games been given a chance since?

The edinburgh derby should be on tv anyway, then a game for europe should definitely be on. Tense affair with drama at the end. 

The 2 relegation games yesterday had 9 goals between them. the midweek games also had 9 goals. Meaningful games with bigger crowds, ridiculous that neither those games or the midweek games featured at all.  

Sky had 3 games on yesterday and flashed between them when a goal went in. Could easily have done similar on wednesday.

I agree with what your saying, but in terms of numbers the old firms away game will still get the highest viewers and that's all they're interested in.

more people will watch rangers away to st mirren in a meaningless game than will watch the edinburgh derby, sad but true

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

I agree with what your saying, but in terms of numbers the old firms away game will still get the highest viewers and that's all they're interested in.

more people will watch rangers away to st mirren in a meaningless game than will watch the edinburgh derby, sad but true

Yeah, I think sometimes people misjudge how this works. 

Clearly there are loads of good stories in the Scottish premiership that we’d all love to see televised but objectively people don’t really care. There are plenty of good stories going on in most leagues that are exciting for the teams involved. That in itself doesn’t attract a mass audience. The premier league gets the coverage it does because it’s considered the top level and casual football fans want to watch the elite. Below that you need something else to attract people beyond a conventional league story. 

Look at Wrexham and the coverage they’re getting, that actually was an interesting title race but it’s nothing to do with why there’s so much focus on them. The old firm offer that freak show element to it - it wasn’t that long ago sky used to market old firm games by pushing the ‘rivalry based on religion’ lines. 

That’s the reality if we want to continue pushing the broadcast deal through sky and the UK market. 

If there was some sort of SPFL tv then we regain control of how the game is promoted and we can seek to maximise a Scottish audience and not try and push to an English audience that does not and never will care. 

But the likelihood is that sort of arrangement is likely to be a smaller value (certainly in the short term) than sky and for that reason it will be avoided. Personally, I’d be willing to see that short term hit to see us build a much healthier profile of the game. But I’m pissing in the wind.