How do you solve a problem like the Scottish Premiership?

[Steve McQueen]

59 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Old Firm fans are all over the replies to the Levein clip with their usual thin-skinned nonsense, saying that Scottish crowds and TV money would immediately drop to the level of Wales or Ireland.

I'm sure fans of every other team in Scotland will suddenly stop going without the prospect of finishing a million points behind those two every season. Future Raith Rovers vs Dunfermline matches being played in front of a crowd of 180 because Luton vs Celtic is on the telly that lunchtime.

Always felt it's a bit weird they think winning a league of that level is an achievement.

[Dunfermline Don]

I always find it weird that fans of the uglies think we wouldn’t survive without them.  No one outside of their own support and fanboys in the media actually cares about them. 

Many clubs have a lower home support when they visit, as no one wants to hear 90 minutes of their ‘traditional’ songs and all that unique atmosphere that surrounds them. 

A successful Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs or either of the Dundee teams would bring a large travelling support without all that baggage that could make up for the loss of the uglies.
 

we would also be able to increase the size of the league as we wouldn’t have to have 4 OF games every season. Playing each other at least 4 times a season is tedious.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it will happen unless the European Super League reappears and they want a second or third level.  The EPL certainly doesn’t want or need them.

I found it somewhat ironic that the English were up in arms when the idea of the super league was threatening to take their top teams, while many here would welcome it happening. 

[TheScarf]

6 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

I always find it weird that fans of the uglies think we wouldn’t survive without them.  No one outside of their own support and fanboys in the media actually cares about them. 

Many clubs have a lower home support when they visit, as no one wants to hear 90 minutes of their ‘traditional’ songs and all that unique atmosphere that surrounds them. 

A successful Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs or either of the Dundee teams would bring a large travelling support without all that baggage that could make up for the loss of the uglies.
 

we would also be able to increase the size of the league as we wouldn’t have to have 4 OF games every season. Playing each other at least 4 times a season is tedious.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it will happen unless the European Super League reappears and they want a second or third level.  The EPL certainly doesn’t want or need them.

I found it somewhat ironic that the English were up in arms when the idea of the super league was threatening to take their top teams, while many here would welcome it happening. 

This is the main selling point for me.  An 18/20 team league would be superb without them.  2x Edinburgh, Dundee, Fife. Highland (  ) derbies feel more prestigious due to there only being 2 instead of 4.  You'd imagine all those games would be sellouts as you'd only be playing them at home once for a whole year, barring cup games of course.  

The Irish/Welsh league standard shout is fucking moronic.  These clubs don't have any fans, there's about 20 clubs in Scotland who get 4 figure home attendances and have done for the last 25 years ffs. Some get 5 (Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs). If anything crowds would increase due to a renewed interest that your team could actually win the Scottish title, or at the very worst qualify for Europe, and/or a cup.

[Dons_1988]

There would be a short term shock for the game. Most clubs have built a cost base around the tv income etc, which folk have to accept would significantly diminish at the very least on them disappearing. 

Im fine with that in all honesty, and it would take a few years to cut cloth accordingly and settle down but the game has been through worse. It’s just operating at a different level. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

There would be a short term shock for the game. Most clubs have built a cost base around the tv income etc, which folk have to accept would significantly diminish at the very least on them disappearing. 

Im fine with that in all honesty, and it would take a few years to cut cloth accordingly and settle down but the game has been through worse. It’s just operating at a different level. 

I think initially we'd see an uplift in crowds. It would be new and exciting and the prospect of actual competition would get some more bodies through the door.

I reckon you'd see a rush on Hearts, Hibs, and Aberdeen season tickets, and to an extent at the smaller clubs too.

[Scary Bear]

The problem with the Scottish Premiership is that it’s boring. Need to fix that before any neutrals bother with it again. The only way that’s likely to happen is if Celtic and Rangers move to the English leagues.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Scary Bear

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think initially we'd see an uplift in crowds. It would be new and exciting and the prospect of actual competition would get some more bodies through the door.

I reckon you'd see a rush on Hearts, Hibs, and Aberdeen season tickets, and to an extent at the smaller clubs too.

You would, but probably not enough to absorb that initial shock.

My worry is that we would try and enforce OF payments to manage that shock but that just opens the door for B teams and anything else they want to keep their tentacles in for their own development. 

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Scary Bear said:

The problem with the Scottish Premiership is that it’s boring. Need to fix that before any neutrals bother with it again. the Only way that’s likely to happen is if Celtic and Rangers move to the English leagues.

Neutrals will never bother with it.

No more than you or I are likely to bother with the Austrian league if it became exciting. I (and I imagine you) just don't care and never will.

Scottish football needs to find the balance between maximising its income from those of us who are interested, while providing competition to maintain that interest.

There is nowhere external for our league to grow. That will never happen.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

You would, but probably not enough to absorb that initial shock.

My worry is that we would try and enforce OF payments to manage that shock but that just opens the door for B teams and anything else they want to keep their tentacles in for their own development. 

I think B Teams would/will unquestionably be part of the deal.

Not ideal, but overall a necessaryu evil, I think. The negotiation would have to be tough on how far up they can move.

[Scary Bear]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Neutrals will never bother with it.

No more than you or I are likely to bother with the Austrian league if it became exciting. I (and I imagine you) just don't care and never will.

Scottish football needs to find the balance between maximising its income from those of us who are interested, while providing competition to maintain that interest.

There is nowhere external for our league to grow. That will never happen.

I mean neutrals in Scotland, or rather supporters of other teams in lower leagues. I used to watch Scottish top flight games (even when Rovers were in the lower leagues) but I wouldn’t think of doing that now. I suppose that could just be because I got old and stopped giving as much of a shit about football. I did follow the goings on in the top flight when I was younger.

[Richey Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I mean neutrals in Scotland, or rather supporters of other teams in lower leagues. I used to watch Scottish top flight games (even when Rovers were in the lower leagues) but I wouldn’t think of doing that now. I suppose that could just be because I got old and stopped giving as much of a shit about football. I did follow the goings on in the top flight when I was younger.

I don't really follow football myself, but plenty of people do.

[DiegoDiego]

11 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I mean neutrals in Scotland, or rather supporters of other teams in lower leagues. I used to watch Scottish top flight games (even when Rovers were in the lower leagues) but I wouldn’t think of doing that now. I suppose that could just be because I got old and stopped giving as much of a shit about football. I did follow the goings on in the top flight when I was younger.

Yeah, i think your n=1 needs a bit more data to it, perhaps sometime could run a poll. Most Jags fans I know are fairly clued up on Premiership goings on. I keep an eye on the whole pyramid, but am probably in a minority on that.

[Hoose Rice]

Is the answer ask Derek Adams? 

[Scary Bear]

2 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

I don't really follow football myself, but plenty of people do.

I wouldn’t bother. Renowned football scientist, Derek Adams says it’s shite. He’s probably right.

[fasda2]

For me the main reason for wanting the cheeks out of Scottish fitba is to rid us of their sectarian shite.  Never mind any reduction in revenue that alone would be worth it.  The irony is that participation in an English league would invariably mean that both clubs would have to do something about it i.e. disclaim and get rid of the whole routine. It would not be tolerated in that league.  Of course they could do that now but choose not to.

[tree house tam]

It would be funny as f**k if Celtic and The Rangers left Scottish football then 10 years down the line their new owners decided to go back to their roots in Dublin and Belfast/Englandshire somewhere. Off you pop fannies.

[johnnydun]

Don't know where to put this, so here will do....

Discussion happening on clubs forfeiting games if racist abuse happens...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68046422

I wonder if they would extend this to bigotry?

Might give the Premiership a whole new look.

[Bad Wolf]

On 20/12/2023 at 12:59, TheScarf said:

This is the main selling point for me.  An 18/20 team league would be superb without them.  2x Edinburgh, Dundee, Fife. Highland (  ) derbies feel more prestigious due to there only being 2 instead of 4.  You'd imagine all those games would be sellouts as you'd only be playing them at home once for a whole year, barring cup games of course.  

The Irish/Welsh league standard shout is fucking moronic.  These clubs don't have any fans, there's about 20 clubs in Scotland who get 4 figure home attendances and have done for the last 25 years ffs. Some get 5 (Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs). If anything crowds would increase due to a renewed interest that your team could actually win the Scottish title, or at the very worst qualify for Europe, and/or a cup.

Good point. I just had a look at this season's crowds in Germany and Scotland - we have 26 clubs with four figure crowds, Germany has 94 (a good few of which are reserve sides). My mathematical illteracy prevents me from a more rigorous analysis; but our population is 1/17th of theirs. So I think we're doing pretty well.

[Bad Wolf]

21 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Don't know where to put this, so here will do....

Discussion happening on clubs forfeiting games if racist abuse happens...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68046422

I wonder if they would extend this to bigotry?

Might give the Premiership a whole new look.

I generally enjoy rhetorical questions, but not in this instance.

[TheScarf]

38 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Good point. I just had a look at this season's crowds in Germany and Scotland - we have 26 clubs with four figure crowds, Germany has 94 (a good few of which are reserve sides). My mathematical illteracy prevents me from a more rigorous analysis; but our population is 1/17th of theirs. So I think we're doing pretty well.

It's a fucking stupid shout from Old Firm fans and pundits.  Only 10 of those 26 benefit from the 'Blue and Green Pound' each season anyway. The Championship clubs and Falkirk never see a penny from their glory hunting fans.